Holding your tool.

[Perry]

Get your mind on beekeeping and out of the gutter.
CpnObvious and I were chatting and we were discussing how we all do the same thing only differently.
I am sometimes amazed watching folks at the inventive way they hold and use their hive tools. One would think we would all do it the same way, but trust me we don't.
I use mine like a lever, with the bent end down between the frames, and then I swing the tool to the left or right to pry them apart. It works way better for me then using the sharp end to try and "slice" them apart as I see most do.

OK, now to sit back and see if I get my wrist slapped for the thread title.

[Jen]

The bent end... yes intriguing   
you asked for it 

Aaaanyway, the first thing I do is use the straight sharp end and slip it down between where the wedge part of each frame meets. I gently wiggle frame 1 and frame 2 apart to the point where I can lift frame 1 up and out, which gives room to move along with the other frames. Although, I was in a class where the instructor used her tool the same way you use yours.

Curious... I can see using the bent end as a lever while moving further along in the frames, but the first frame... if I were to use it as a lever it would push the frame into the wall and mush bees especially in a 10 frame set up. How do you get the first frame out? 

[Perry]

First thing I do, is push all the frames using the tool as a lever, hard over to the far side of the box (making sure no bees arewhere the shoulders will contact that side). I then pry the first frame closest to me towards me, and there is uauaslly plenty of room. to lift it out.

[Jen]

Shoulders.... remember that Jen     Okay I'm with ya on that visual

Do you have 10 frame hives?

Because some of my hives have brand new frames, plus a few scattered plastic frames, plus some old frames that I've gathered along the way which I do believe are an nth wider than todays manufactured frames. And by the time the bees get all the propolis stuffed everywhere which takes up frame room, there is maybe 1/4 - 1/2 inch room to move them at all. So I have to go slow and carefully jostle that first frame out, it's very tight and kinda scary getting that first frame out especially if it's in the brood box where the queen could very well be on that last frame against the wall.

I do like the idea of pushing all the frames away from me first, I can do that is some of my boxes but not all, to tight.

[iddee]

So, Perry, what do you do when the propolis is so strong the box side would give in before 10 frames slide all at once?

[Jen]

Yeah Iddee, that's along the lines of what I'm talking about. Some of the old frames that I have come across are so soaked with propolis that they are actually wider, or... they were homemades ~

[CpnObvious]

keep it clean... keep it clean... keep it clean... WAIT! This isn't the "Keep it clean" thread! 

I will sometimes use the flat end to force down between the spacers... But i usually use the bent end as a pry bar between the frames, next to the spacers, to separate them.  This includes to remove the first frame... I just pry it against the other 9 frames to force it out.  If space end up being an issue because I can't slide it far I use the flat end to pry up on the ear/end of the frame against the top of the deep.

The inspector uses the flat end to pry up on the center of the top bar of the frame he wants to remove.  I wasn't too keen on this as it could damage the top comb in the frame being removed and it could also damage the top bar of the frame being removed as well as the one being pried against.

[Jen]

Agreed Cpn - The entire strength the the framed is where the top bar is joined with the side wedge bar. I have my mine joined with four nails plus glue. That is where to pry the frame loose and upwards, both sides, then grab the frame and slowly lift up.

[riverbee]

depends on what hive tool you are using?

i use the standard ones, i run 9 frames in 10 frame langstroth deeps.  i don't start with the 1st frame box side, i remove the 2nd or 3rd frame in first,  typically the 2nd frame in. i use 'the tool'...... a couple different ways depending on how the frame is glued down, maybe bent end down to pry back and forth on both sides, and straight end up underneath, using the frame before it as leverage to lift or pry loose, similiar to what capn's inspector does, but i do not start in the middle...... not sure i made sense on this?

jen the queen shouldn't be on the outside frames, well i said shouldn't..... but still need to treat every frame as if she might be there.

one of my brothers fashioned me a set of frame rests in two pieces i sometimes use, copied some design, really slick things. when i get the 2nd or 3rd frame out, that frame goes on the rests, so i have room to work and move towards the center.  as i do, the propolis gets scraped off.

[Jen]

Riv- "jen the queen shouldn't be on the outside frames, well i said shouldn't..... but still need to treat every frame as if she might be there.

Agreed 

[Riverrat]

I like the maxant tool with the hook. Thing is a work of art and no problem when the frames are all glued together

[efmesch]

I like the maxant tool with the hook. Thing is a work of art and no problem when the frames are all glued together

Lately I've taken to working with the bent and and hooked hive tools to get the advanteges unique to each.  Someone should invent a 3 headed tool so the advantages of all three would be together.  I hate it when I have to switch tools at an awkward moment, like when the bees are starting to get edgy or when one hand is holding a frame.   

[lazy shooter]

I like the maxant tool with the hook. Thing is a work of art and no problem when the frames are all glued together

I too have one of these tools.  The hook is very useful.

[LazyBkpr]

heh!  My hive tool is bigger than your hive tool!

   Actually.. My hive tool usually remains in the shed where I use it to scrape and clean with..  I have been using painters tools almost exclusively this year..   again, depending on when I need to scrape with the bent end of the hive tool..
   As mentioned.. I cant often slide the whole raft of frames back and forth.. at least before I go through all the frames and clean them..  Keeping my frames centered gives me a little wiggle room to get the first frame loose, prying it to the side slightly..  then I simply use the painters tool to pry/lift the first frame up, slide out gently and set it aside as I go through the rest of the frames.  The painters tool goes in my back pocket, and does not cut/stab my back or my seat when I inevitably forget to take it from my pocket when I hop in the truck.

   Red Devil makes a scraper that looks amazingly like a hive tool, but the bent end is slightly longer..  I do like it as a hive tool when I need the extra leverage, otherwise the painters tool has proven to be all I need most of the time.  OH!!!  The painters tool has a BOTTLE OPENER!

[Zweefer]

   Red Devil makes a scraper that looks amazingly like a hive tool, but the bent end is slightly longer... 
   OH!!!  The painters tool has a BOTTLE OPENER!

Two very important pieces of information... 

[apisbees]

I an with Riverbee I remove the second frame in first when I leave the hive at the previous inspection I push the frames together leaving a larger gap between the last frame and super side. The next time I go into the hive I pry the 1st frame towards the super side  to give more room to remove the 2nd frame. This will compress any bur-come into the side of the first comb if there is some between the side and first comb. The bees build more bridge comb between the side wall and the frames than they do between the frames. If there is bur-comb along the top bars I cut it on the sides of frame 1 & 3 this leaves all the bur-comb on frame #2 and as you pull it up the sides of the adjacent frames are clean.and you have lots of room to remove the frame with out damaging any bees including the queen is she happens to be on the frame.

[Gypsi]

I always take out the first frame and hang it on my frame holder on the side of the box. If I would have gone for number 2 frame this morning I could have rolled the queen, she was on it, laying eggs. Deciding which outer frame to take means looking to see where the least bees are, that's the one I will pull.

I have 3 hive tools and a frame gripper, I find that I only use my italian hive tool (long enough to cut frames apart half way through the hive) and my frame gripper.  Unless the frames are heavy, just the italian hive tool and my gloved hand are plenty, but if I want to rotate and view both sides of the frame I use the Dadant gripper thing to hold it.  Lead mentor from my bee club says they are awful and kill bees, but used carefully I don't think I've ever squished one.

have a photo of that painter's tool Lazy?

Gypsi

[Jen]

These are my three 'go to's' but mainly the tool in the middle. The putty knive scrapes off the propolis easier and the wonky comb as well...  for me 

[Riverrat]

These are my three 'go to's' but mainly the tool in the middle. The putty knive scrapes off the propolis easier and the wonky comb as well...  for me 

If you use a maxant once you will throw them 3 tools away 

[Jen]

Sounds like Rat needs to make picture tutotial or a vid to show how this wonder tools works!

How Do You Hold Your Tool Rat!