Does Anyone Use Thymol For Nosema Prevention?

[Jen]

I would like to know how many here use fumigilin b, and how many use Thymol for nosema treatments, and why? Thanks 

[Perry]

I stopped using Fumagilan and Oxytet back in 2008 or 2009. I had "decent" overwinterin results after that except for one year.
I started using Fumagilan again three years ago (fall treatment) after we moved to the Annapolis Valley where there are lots of bees.
The results have been startling, whether they can be attributed to the Fumagilan I cannot be positive, but if it ain't broke I don't mess with it.
Into winter with 29 - lost 1.
Into winter with 51 - lost 3.
Heading into winter with 65 (give or take a few) - we'll see.
Never tried Thymol, the timing doesn't work well for me.

[Bakersdozen]

I never heard of using Thymol for nosema, on fumagilin B.  I've heard of Thymol use for controlling varroa though.

[riverbee]

i use fumagillin when i think i need to. there are studies out there, and i think randy oliver suggests that thymol may be an alternative treatment for nosema.

[Jen]

Baker-"I never heard of using Thymol for nosema, on fumagilin B.  I've heard of Thymol use for controlling varroa though.

     Seems as tho thymol is the runner up to Fumigilin

River- "i use fumagillin when i think i need to. there are studies out there, and i think randy oliver suggests that thymol may be an alternative treatment for nosema.

     What gives you the sign that you may need to use Fumigilin? Like is there any other signs outside the hive that would tell if there is a nosema problem, other than dysentery and/or microscope?

     And, yes the study from Randy Oliver is a good one to read.

    Michael Bush will not use it! In his book The Practical Beekeeper, it's stated that European Union that has banned it's use in beekeeping claiming it causes birth defects, amongst other things. What the EU uses instead is Thymol.

    Please keep in mind that I'm not making judgements on what other beeks do or not do for nosema. That isn't the point of this thread. I'm just researching and comparing.

    I have more reading to do. Keep the comments coming 

[LazyBkpr]

I have not seen any evidence strong enough to get me to use Thymol over Fumagilin, or in fact enough evidence that thymol works as well as fumagilin..  Yes I havce seen reports that it works better, but I have also seen the reports of results that say it does not work at all..    I thgink at this point, if I HAD to use something other than Fumagilin I would try Nozevit and cross my fingers..

[Slowmodem]

I haven't had to use it yet.  I always put a squirt of lemon juice and a spoonful of HBH in the syrup.  They say HBH is a feeding stimulant and that helps their tract moving which is supposed to help.

[Jen]

Slow- do you do this method as a fall treatment then? 

[Barbarian]

For info.

Fumagillin hasn't been available in the UK for the last few years.

Thymol used to be routinely added to the pre-winter syrup feed. It acted as a bacteriostat/fungistat in the pails of syrup. In respect of Nosema, one theory was that the Nosema is mainly present in the honeybee gut and that ingested thymolized syrup acts as an antiseptic to reduce the Nosema.

Thymol is not very soluble in water. One technique was to prepare a stock solution of thymol in alcohol. When the pre-winter syrup has cooled down, a measured amount of the thymol stock solution is added. If needed I have a recipe in my copy of Manley (1946).

[Jen]

Hi Barbarian    I would like to know that recipe please

   I also need to know this:

   Fumigilin/syrup is one gallon per one deep colony (pretty sure).

   Hoping your recipe gives the amount per hive, in gallons, quarts and pints. That math will settle in my head better. I would much prefer to give a pint a day to each hive until their recommended dose is complete. Meanwhile I'll look online as well starting with Randy Oliver.

[Jen]

It's Fumigilin or Thymol for me this year. First time I will treat for winter survival. I know exactly how Fumigilin works, how much each hive needs and for how long. But, so far I haven't run into enough information on how long to use thymol, how much to use before winter, whether to pour it onto the frames of which I think is harsh on the bees, or whether to spray them and their frames until saturated which I think is harsh, or whether to feed with syrup of which even Randy Oliver didn't state how much to use... pints, quarts, gallons, per colony.

Any input?

[Barbarian]

A thymolized syrup recipe.

Dissolve one ounce of thymol crystals in five ounces of surgical alcohol to make a stock solution. Prepare syrup by dissolving 112 lb of sugar in 7 gallons of hot water. When the syrup has cooled add half an ounce of the stock thymol solution. The solution can then be stored in sealed pails before being used as a pre-winter feed.

The above recipe has been extracted from "Honey Farming" (1946) by R.O.B. Manley. Reprints still available.

Some "surgical" alcohols contain chemical de-naturants. I would use a high proof vodka for the stock solution.

[Alleyyooper]

Fumigilian Is all we use every spring and fall. Of Course we got hit hard back when Noesma Creana first popped up in our area. It is what the university of Guelph recommended back in the day when no one in the states had an idea what we were dealing with.

   Al

[lazy shooter]

Do either of these medications leave a residue in the comb that will build up over time if its use is continued?

[pistolpete]

my understanding is that fumagillin is the only treatment available for nosema.  Thymol is for tracheal mites.

[Jen]

PETE- "my understanding is that fumagillin is the only treatment available for nosema.  Thymol is for tracheal mites.

      Not according to Randy Oliver scientific testing for nosema. Interesting data on this link
      http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-nosema-twins-part-5-alternative-treatments/

LAZY- "Do either of these medications leave a residue in the comb that will build up over time if its use is continued?

      Seems fumigilin has been banned in many countries due to the anti biotics getting into the honey. And that's why many beeks will  only use fumigilin in Fall treatment.
       Thymol is simply the herb Thyme, and is processed into a crystilline product that can be made into a feeding solution. The link above from Randy Oliver shares data about thyme being the second runner up for fumigilin. It's just not clear yet about the dosage. Seems in Europe that thyme is what they use on their bees almost exclusively.
       
       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymol

[denise1952]

I have a good recipe for nosema using thymol crystals if you want it its one of our beeks on forum and a lot says its very good im trying it so will let you know
 denise

[Jen]

Hi Denise, Yes, I would like that recipe for next year. I couldn't find enough info on the thymol and I was running out of time to get a nosema treatment in for this year. So I went with Randy Oliver who said "For now, use fumigilin until we have the right recipe with thymol". I'm over half way thru the fumigilin treatment so far. Thanks Denise, looking forward to reading your recipe 

[denise1952]

hi jen  this is the recipe ,you can use surgical spirits instead of isopropyl, and the lecithin is just to make an emulsion  to mix it together
a lot of our beeks on English forum trust it and don't use anything else  if you get stuck you know where I am lol
  its further down page im hopeless at  copying and posting  so good luck with it
and if you want one for varroa with thymol just let me know
      denise

 
 







 30g thymol crystals placed in honey jar,add 5ml of isopropyl alcohol to the crystals,place jar into a water bath of boiling water to speed up the dissolving process.
In another jar pour in 140 ml of boiling water and add 1 teaspoon of lecithin granules, stir well,and place this jar into a water bath of boiling water,stirring often for abot ten minutes or so until most of the lecithin granules have dissolved,you can then strain this mixture through a teastrainer or similar to remove any granules that have not dissolved fully,then simply add the dissolved thymol to this mix,and shake well,will look just like a jar of milk.
To use add 5ml to each gallon of syrup and stir well,syrup will go milky,unlike when using the old original mix.
If the mixture forms any crystals at a later date,tip into old small pan and reheat,do this outdoors.




It works out at roughly 1ml per litre so its 2ml



 


1 oz. by weight thymol crystals placed in honey jar,add 1 3/4 oz. by volume of isopropyl alcohol to the crystals, place jar into a water bath of boiling water to speed up the dissolving process.
In another jar pour in 4 3/4 oz, by volume of boiling water and add 1 teaspoon of lecithin granules, stir well,and place this jar into a water bath of boiling water,stirring often for about ten minutes or so until most of the lecithin granules have dissolved. You can then strain this mixture through a tea strainer or similar to remove any granules that have not dissolved fully,then simply add the dissolved thymol to this mix,and shake well,will look just like a jar of milk.
To use add 1 3/4 oz. by volume to each gallon of syrup and stir well,syrup will go milky,unlike when using the old original mix.
If the mixture forms any crystals at a later date,tip into old small pan and reheat,do this outdoors.




It works out at roughly 1ml per litre so its 2ml



Edited by Iddee to ""hopefully" help.
Denise, if you aren't happy with my edit, just say so and I'll put it back like you had it.

PS. I did not understand the last line.  ""It works out at roughly 1ml per litre so its 2ml""

[Jen]

Thanks Denise!    I'll copy this off and put it into my bee file for next year, happy to get this recipe