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Author Topic: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter  (Read 9876 times)

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Offline Jen

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Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« on: October 15, 2014, 04:04:15 pm »
I have a hive that may have a superceded queen in it. I found a queen on the top of the lid with some attendants about a week or so ago. Put her back in the hive and the next day there was a dead queen on the ground on. Today I opened the lid and inner cover and there is no roar, so I'm assuming there is a queen in there, but I will check for sure on the next warm day.

Question: Without being mated, how long can this queen survive in this hive and existing bees?

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Offline iddee

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 04:35:26 pm »
If she is not mated in 2 or 3 weeks after emerging, she will never be.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 05:49:27 pm »
Hi Iddee ~ Okay, I remember you saying this on one of my posts a few days ago  :)

Next question: If she's a late in the season unmated queen, will she survive the winter with the bees anyway? And then when it's time to ramp up they will supercede her in say late Feb when there is more drones for mating?
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Offline Perry

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 06:10:35 pm »
Even if she did survive the winter, she will never begin laying, even in the spring. There will be nothing for the bees to use to supercede her with.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 06:21:19 pm »
Yes! That's A Part Of The Puzzle... Good!

Hubby and I are going back and forth about the two hives we have that have dinks. It's been suggested here on the forum to take the hive with the superceded queen, kill her and any queen cells, and combine with the hive next to it, which still has a fertile dink queen in it for the winter. Then replace her with a purchased mated queen in the spring.

The hive, after combining, will be a deep about 1/2 full of bees and capped brood, and a medium with bees and capped brood. Then, there would be two mediums honey supers on top.

It sounds like a good plan to me, but hubs wants to understand the long view better.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 08:14:26 pm »
One live hive, or two dead hives seems to be the choices, in my opinion.
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 08:34:59 pm »
jen, when is your average first frost date?  That will have a bearing on the prognosis.  :)
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Offline Jen

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 08:45:14 pm »
That's a good one Iddee  :)

LEE- "jen, when is your average first frost date?  That will have a bearing on the prognosis.

    Ummm, I have no idea ??? But probably any minute now  :D  Would you be so kind as to expound on that thought?
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Offline Jen

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 08:51:01 pm »
Now, the bees and queen start amping up sometime in January right? I'm thinking they will be making drones for mating season?
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 10:08:43 pm »
"I have a hive that may have a superceded queen in it. I found a queen on the top of the lid with some attendants about a week or so ago. Put her back in the hive and the next day there was a dead queen on the ground on. Today I opened the lid and inner cover and there is no roar, so I'm assuming there is a queen in there, but I will check for sure on the next warm day.
Question: Without being mated, how long can this queen survive in this hive and existing bees?"

jen, this is the hive with the deep you wondering about leaving on or taking off? you posted pix of a queen in a clip that we suggested you send back in the hive.....that queen was mated, probably the original queen.  the queen you found dead that you also showed pix of had not been mated, too small.  unless you go in there and take a lookie see at the queen situation, anything any of us say is speculative UNLESS there is an unmated queen in there, and they ditched the mated queen you placed back in,  and if so, combine with another hive. 

"hubs wants to understand the long view better."

tell hubs, the long and the short of it is with a 'dink queen' or an unmated queen, your hive/s are on a crapshoot to survive. combining bees is the best answer.   ;)

hope i made sense?

your thread here:
Oh No! Cause For Alarm! Queen Is Outside The Hive!!!
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 10:12:29 pm »
Jen, as you are well aware, all beekeeping is local.  My location, with an average first frost date of NOV 15th, will allow some pretty late matings that will go through winter.  For instance, last year, we had a queen mate in the first week of November, make it through the winter and half the summer when I gave her away.

Our friends further north wouldn't have drones to mate with queens or flying temperatures, even now.  I loosed a virgin queen today that I expect to be a 'spare tire queen' for the winter in a mating NUC.  Might work or might not. 

Jen, the reason I asked about your first frost date is, that in my mind anyway, it serves as a data point near the end of the nectar season, when my efforts are focused on the coming dearth and winter.  As I write this, tec's writing about poor performance from late queens is ringing in my ears.

If you are near a first frost, Iddee's advice rings true to me too.

JMO, I'm a beekeeper in progress and claim no special prowess in bee knowledge...Haven't made 'all' the mistakes yet.  ;)
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 11:24:05 pm »
"As I write this, tec's writing about poor performance from late queens is ringing in my ears. "

 :yes: very poor.
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Gypsi

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 11:36:16 pm »
I am maybe 40 or 50 miles northeast of Lee, and my first freeze date was right around halloween, I had a queen take off with half a hive just befoe then, the drones were kicked out during the freeze, I gave up and moved the remaining bees in the hive over a nuc, and a week later found the dead virgin on the front robber screen of the nuc.

Beekeeping is very very local
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Offline rodmaker

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2014, 09:15:33 am »
 Jen i had one hive supersede in January two years ago and the queen was mated and started laying so anything is posible. I checked hives last Friday and i still have drones and even drone brood. I think the girls know what they are doing and if they superseded then there is a good chance the queen will be mated and start laying . Give her a little time and then make your decision.
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joseph

Offline Lburou

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 09:30:41 am »
rodmaker reminded me of one NUC that has just superseded and had a new, virgin queen yesterday....rodmaker, I hope they know what they are doing.  ;)
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Offline rodmaker

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 10:10:49 am »
Lburou I would not try to raise Queens this time of year but i have two new queens that have started laying and are doing fine. The Queen from the hive two years ago turned out to be one of my best. The bees will do what is needed to survive if they have the resources to do the job That being said i would think that a queen being raised in winter is rare and not done very often. When it happened to me it was a warm january and i think the girls were starting the year early.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Queenless Hive Thru The Winter
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2014, 12:36:36 pm »
That sounds about right Rod, your January's are warmer than ours. This last spring we had 7 below zero in January. And now we are down to 40's at night. If my bees superceded here in 3 foot of snow in January I would have to wonder about their mental capacity  :D
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