Dealing with Farmers for Forage

[lazy shooter]

Beekeepers:

I have been reading about the benefits of crimson clover.  Aside from producing 50 to 100 pounds of honey per acre (in a good year with adequate rain) it adds 50 to 60 pounds of nitrogen to the soil and a ton of material that can be integrated into the soil.  It only takes five pounds of seed per acre at a cost of $1.50 per pound. 

To get the land plowed and seeded in my area is a cost of about $40.00 per acre.   That would bring the total cost with seed included to $47.50 per acre, call it fifty dollars per acre.  There are farmers in my area that rest a portion of their tillable land each year.  They usually plant wheat or oats to hold the soil.  I don't know why they wouldn't be agreeable to planting crimson clover and getting the benefit of the nitrogen and mulch material put back into the soil.  That being the case, would it be profitable to pay fifty bucks an acre for excellent honey forage that would produce 50 pounds of  good quality clover honey?  It would probably take at least 10 and probably 20 acres to make it worth while for a farmer to fool with.

Twenty acres would be a cost of a thousand bucks, but a harvest of 1,000 pounds of honey, (fifty pounds per acre) would be worth several times that amount.  Of course, like all agricultural projects, it is a gamble on the weather, and the bees will make some honey with or without the clover.  But, clover honey is much sought after and a valuable honey crop. 

We beekeepers are always wanting someone to pay for our bees.  This is in effect paying the farmer, but is it worth it to a beekeeper?

As an add-on, crimson clover is an early blooming plant.

lazy

[Perry]

Kim Flottum mentions this is one of his books, I'll have to look it up.

[lazy shooter]

My neighbor, about 200 yards from my bees, just planted five acres of crimson clover today.  I agreed to pay for the clover seed and 500 pounds of fertilizer.  This will be an approximate cost of 200 bucks, or 40 bucks per acre.  It will make a nice test for my hypothesis. 

At eight dollars per pint, a conservative number, I will need 25 pints or approximate pounds to break even.  It's a small  investment to test the water.

[kebee]

 I think you made the right choice there, helped him and your bees also and being a good neighbor also.

Ken

[iddee]

Lazy, a pint of honey is 1 1/2 lb. It weighs half again as much as water.

[Gypsi]

sounds good.  If I get time off from the computer glitches associated with sales tax reports I'm going to wildflower bomb, and part of those bombs will be crimson clover.  Talking anyone into tilling a lot or planting it around here would be rough, but I can always throw flower seeds at the ones not mowed in the last 2 years

[lazy shooter]

Lazy, a pint of honey is 1 1/2 lb. It weighs half again as much as water.

Thanks Iddee.  I actually remember that now that you bring it to my attention.  I keep on being hung up on that old saw that states:  "a pint is a pound the world around."

[lazy shooter]

If I could get 20 to 30 acres planted, some of you Fort Worth Beekeepers could move some hives out here.  I think crimson clover will bloom about six weeks, and I think that many acres would carry a lot of hives. 

[brooksbeefarm]

I just had 6 acres of scrub brush and cedar trees dozed off  part of the 18 acres i bought in January, i'm going to get a soil test to see what it needs? I plan on putting part of it in buckwheat and the other part in clover, the rest is wooded with lots of sumac, gooseberries,and wild blackberries. There is a vine Japanese honeysuckle that is smothering and killing trees in the wooded part , like all honeysuckle it blooms and i will see if the bees work it before i kill it or thin it out. Any of you know about Japanese honeysuckle? Jack

[LazyBkpr]

Indeed it can be worth it if the weather cooperates.  I have seed ordered for 40 acres.. (800 lbs of seed) Birdsfoot Trefoil, Sainfoin, Crimson and two types of sweet clovers and a smattering of buckwheat.  It is all about the sustained bloom, and still allow me to cut and bail it in the fall.. IIRC Kim Flottum mentioned that 5 acres planted well could support 20 production hives.. I dont recall where he said it.. in one of the books I have or perhaps in one of the magazines..
   Allowing the 40 acres to go to seed and only cutting it once will provide regrowth the following years and will probably need replanted after 5 years for best productivity, and this is cutting it once in the fall...    Having 70 to 100 Large bales to sell will be icing (made from honey) on the cake..

   Initially I was told that planting for bees was not worth the time and effort. A little research showed quite the opposite..  Beekeepers in the area planting their draws, set asides and fencerows all claimed to show an improvement in their honey crops. Of those who kept close enough records I found there to be a good coloration between how much they planted and what kind of honey harvest they had..

   From about two acres on one place to nearly 20 acres at another the boost in honey yield showed with from 12 to 60 lbs MORE honey harvested per hive..   Was it a better year with more rain? Yes it was!!   So I guess I will have to keep track for a couple more years and do an average...

[brooksbeefarm]

With all the deer and turkey on this place i don't think i would get much of a hay crop.Right now i have 4 huge brush piles to deal with, a neighbor that joins mine said he would like to have the down trees for fire wood and would pile the root wades up and burn them for me . I told him to knock his self out, that i was just going to burn it anyway,I have an old disc that i'm going to leave up there, most years i can disc the buckwheat and get 3 blooms from one planting, but when it goes to seed in the fall the deer will eat it into the ground.I walked the edges of the woods and broadcast by hand sweet clover and turnip seed two weeks ago and have a good stand of turnips, but no clover yet, deer love turnips and i love deer jerky Jack

[Bakersdozen]

. Any of you know about Japanese honeysuckle? Jack

If it is Japanese Honeysuckle, which is sounds like from your description, it's an invasive plant.  The blooms won't have a scent and are pale yellow and white.  Sometimes the blooms are pinkish, but not red as the native honeysuckle.  The USDA plant profile says that it has little impact on wildlife.  I think they are mostly referring to birds and small animals.   Burning and Metsulfuron methyl is recommended to eradicate it.

[tecumseh]

the old books says you can never make this work out in terms of economics.  I would also guess the folks that wrote those books would think it pure fantasy the price I now get for a pint of honey....  quite honestly when I sell a bottle I am quite often in shock myself.

I am guessing at your location lazyshooter that there is no need to check the soil ph like you would need to do in east Texas.  crimson clover makes a very pretty honey.

[lazy shooter]

the old books says you can never make this work out in terms of economics.  I would also guess the folks that wrote those books would think it pure fantasy the price I now get for a pint of honey....  quite honestly when I sell a bottle I am quite often in shock myself.

I am guessing at your location lazyshooter that there is no need to check the soil ph like you would need to do in east Texas.  crimson clover makes a very pretty honey.

Hey Tec, it's good to hear from you.  I think in one of your posts that you stated, and I paraphrase: "I hope to pay all of my bills and pay the moron that runs this operation a dollar an hour."  I give all of my honey away.  Personally, I am not looking for a profit, but I thought this might work out for some other beekeepers in farm communities.  More and more farmers are laying out a large portion of their crop land each year.  They've learned that planting green manure crops and letting the predator bugs come back into the land is more beneficial than they thought.

Honey has become a good health food and as such a luxury commodity and it is priced high accordingly as compared to yesterday's standards.  When i was a boy in the late 40's and fifties, my mom traded butter for quarts of honey.  A lady in town kept bees and we milked two cows around the calendar.  One could get a lot of butter for a quart of honey on today's market.

Again, it's good to hear from you.

lazy

[Alleyyooper]

One nice thing about the crimson clover is after if blooms and goes to seed you mow and get new blooms so afterwards.

   Al

[jb63]

I have about 3000# left if any one needs some.Last year the market went up to a 1.25/# and every one planted crimson.Now it's down to .65 cents growers price and not moving.I'll sell at .70 plus freight and inoculation.
 Lazy,for crimson you want the ph about 7 and scout for those little brown slugs.

[lazy shooter]

jb63:

What beautiful pictures you posted.  We have sandy loam to sandy soil, some of it is a tinge red with clay, but most of it is deep sand with a bit of dark dirt mixed in it.  The Ph runs between seven and eight.  Two of my old pals told me that their fathers and grandfathers grew great amounts of crimson clover.  Historically, it has done well in this area.  My guy planted 1/2-acre on the back of my home lot and another four acres about 400 yards behind my property.  We deep disked the land and mixed 50 pounds of seed with 500 pounds of fertilizer.  The feed and fertilizer was then broadcast over the field and then cut in with the disk.  I'm hoping for the best and prepared for whatever.

Did your bees make a lot of honey from the clover?  How long did the Crimson clover bloom?  Questions from a curious beekeeper.

Thanks for posting the pictures?

lazy

[jb63]

They made some off it but it is one of the early flowers before our blackberry flow.We plant it with a small seed drill and go about 3/8 -1/2 deep.If you broad cast and harrow you may get some.You should know in two weeks.

[lazy shooter]

One nice thing about the crimson clover is after if blooms and goes to seed you mow and get new blooms so afterwards.

   Al

I didn't realize that.  I'm not a farmer or cattleman by any stretch of the imagination, but I am even less of an agronomist.  Will crimson clover reseed itself from year to year?   

[Lburou]

They made some off it but it is one of the early flowers before our blackberry flow.We plant it with a small seed drill and go about 3/8 -1/2 deep.If you broad cast and harrow you may get some.You should know in two weeks.

IF it rains.  Good luck lazy shooter