Oxalic Acid Discussion

[Gypsi]

If OAV use dominates the market Apivar and a few other moneymakers will suffer

[Gypsi]

It looks like the performance difference between 1.4 grams of Oxalic acid, and 2.8 grams is not great.  Since I am not sure exactly how much I got in the Varroa Cleaner today, but I am sure it was between those 2, at least I figure it will work and the bees will be ok. And that is good enough.  Sleep is coming. Soon...Thank you Iddee for finding me the thread.  Roof work then other work then bee work and getting my truck covered before the rain, I am all worn out

[iddee]

Sleep well.

[Papakeith]

I'm supposed to treat a fellow beekeeper's hive tomorrow.  The temps are supposed to be in the high 20s.  How cold is too cold for treating with the OA vaporization method? 

[kebee]

 I would not do it at that temp., you could cause them to break cluster and freeze, and in cluster it would not get all the mites. I would wait until it was at least in the 40 or above mark.

Ken

[Gypsi]

I heard 37 or 39 degrees Fahrenheit as the coldest to treat

[LazyBkpr]

The "instructions"   Recommend vaporizing when the bees are clustered because there will be NO, or very little brood in with which the mites can hide/take refuge.
   Disturbing the cluster has been my concern as well. Recently I have had a chance to talk to a few prominent commercial beekeepers in my continuing endeavor to grow enough to actually make a small profit from bees...   The general consensus, as I understand it, is to treat late winter when the cluster is higher in the hive, and the heat from the vaporizor will not disturb that cluster.
   I have NOT tested this. I treat when its warmer JUST because I dont want to go out in the cold... so for what its worth....

[Papakeith]

I ended up waiting for Warmer weather.  I didn't want to take the chance especially with someone else's bees.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[LazyBkpr]

Bringing back the discussion for a bit....

   I have been asked half a dozen times, what makes the OA Brushy mountain Sells "LEGAL" for use in hives?   
   I have EMailed them, but, Have not gotten a response, which is unlike them.
   Is the stuff they sell purer than 99.6%?
  They sell it in the bottle and bag, a bag is 175 Grams for $18.00........

   There is 453.5 grams in a pound, so that =... ?   Less than a third of a pound?  175 goes into 453.5  about 2.6 times....   For $3.20 a full pound you can buy the 99.6% pure OA. On occasion you can find it at 99.8% pure for a few cents more a pound...
   Does anyone HAVE the bag or bottle from Brushy Mountain? What does it say the purity is?
   I have thought about this myself a few times, and now that I am being asked, I would like to be able to answer with some semblance of intelligence..

   WHO, says the OA Brushy Mountain sells is legal and anything not labeled for hives is NOT legal?  EPA?  What is/are the criteria they use to test it?
   Thanks!!!
      Scott

[iddee]

Because Brushy spent the time and money to get it approved, they received an exclusive to sell it for beekeeping. It is no different from the hardware oa, but it is like buying booze, only certain licensed dealers can sell alcohol to drink.

[LazyBkpr]

As I understand it Obama was the one who was pushing approval, Brushy Mountain was part of that?
    It is simply an acquired approval through some agency of government that decided that Brushy Mountain has the sole right to put a label on OA that anyone can get anywhere for a tenth the cost?
   Does than not smack a little of dishonesty and corruption to charge so much for something they only relabel? I am not against someone making a profit, that IS the idea after all, but making 44 dollars profit per pound of OA they simply relabel seems a bit overboard. Yes, they have bottles and bags, the cost of labels, and someone to weigh it, but still...
   I have always liked Brushy Mountain, they have good products and good service, Quick reply to questions etc..  but there is a bit of a sour taste developing...   

[CBT]

As I understand it Brushy Mtn folks retired and an investment group bought it. Not to say they aren't doing a good job with it. The oxalic acid thing is a touchy subject. They did pay a premium for the paperwork.

[efmesch]

If you look at  Iddee's post #64 (on page 4) you'll see just how much Bushy Mountain did to get the approval of Oxalic Acid for hives. If you'll go back a few more posts, you can see more of the development of the approval.

I side with LazyBkpr in questioning the propriety of the excessive price rise for a cheap item just because they filled out a few forms and printed up labels.  Go and figure out the profit margin Bushy is making on printing out  labeling.
In this day and age of home computers and printers, each and every one of us can print up a nice label and stick it on their cheap OA. 

[kebee]

 Well I think Bushy is getting a little greeded for I have notice there are items I bought 4 years ago that have double in price and only some food that has done that.

Ken

[Some Day]

LazyB,

Why not just buy the 35 gram package for $5?  I doubt that it would ever actually run out of Oxalic Acid. 

[Bakersdozen]

If you look at  Iddee's post #64 (on page 4) you'll see just how much Bushy Mountain did to get the approval of Oxalic Acid for hives. If you'll go back a few more posts, you can see more of the development of the approval.

I don't understand why folks would think Brushy is doing something under handed.  They invested all the time and money to push the government to legalize an inexpensive product that no one else would touch.  There isn't much money to be made in a product that costs pennies per dose.  This is a natural product that many beekeepers, I know some myself, used even though it wasn't legal.  Beekeepers were encouraging law makers to legalize this.  If anything, we should be buying OA exclusively from Brushy.  They invested themselves in this product.  If one doesn't want to purchase from Brushy, then can go to the hardware store and buy the wood product that is packaged for a different use.

[efmesch]

I don't intend to seem argumentative BUT:
1. It's my impression (possibly incorrect) that Brushy was not the only one working on this project. It seems to me that there was a lot of "grass roots" involvement of beekeepers and others involved in beekeeping that pushed the approval to the point where perhaps Brushy put in the final touches.
2. The effort they put into getting the OA approved was at best, a "one time" event.  The rise in price (quite exhorbitant in my opinion), is a long term event.  If the margin of profit they had put on OA was more modest, I would not have anything to say----every business has its right to make a profit.  But when profit comes from price qouging, it riles me.   In one of my earlier postss I questioned the possibility that after approval the price of OA might jump.

I suggest that you look back at posts #61, 62 and 63.

[LazyBkpr]

I did not see anything done by Brushy Mountain..  nothing, but that does not mean i was looking in the wrong place..    The waiting time and fees were waived because President Obama ASKED for this to be pushed through, Prsident Obama was the driving force behind getting this done. ("As far as I knew.") I did know there were a LOT of bee related industries also pushing HIM to push for them...

   NOW, I like Brushy Mountain, I always have. they have always responded to any question about any of their products quickly. Having said that...
  if they sold a POUND of OA for the same 18.00 price they would make $14.80 on that pound.. that in itself is quite a profit...  Having the market cornered, means they probably sell a LOT of it.....  Making over 40 per pound is just pushing it too far to be acceptable to me.

LazyB,

Why not just buy the 35 gram package for $5?  I doubt that it would ever actually run out of Oxalic Acid. 

   I agree with you,
    however, I will stick to my own original methods.. I do not treat for mites in ANY WAY.. I am treatment free, totally!!!!!   I do a couple times a year, go through my hives, and use OA to bleach the inside of my boxes and my frames.. it is a wood bleach correct?

 
   EF Posted the same time I did...   I agree with him!!!


Edit
   Perhaps it was not legal USE of OA that Brushy helped with but the approval for use in each state??   I do recall Brushy Mountain being a part of that...    However, what I still do not understand, is what makes it legal for use..  A label, with NO Purity or ingredients...   I may purchase it from them, JUST to have it tested.. if I do that, and the Purity is LESS than what I have been using.. the POO will hit the fan SO VERY hard....   Of course, if it turns out what they sell is of GREATER purity, then of course I will have to get on my knees and beg forgiveness..........

[Bakersdozen]

   A battery will do a Hive or three, it works better to leave the battery in the truck and hook it up that way, truck idling. I actually use a good set of jumper cables to make the leads longer.
   Yes, red wire to red wire..  though on most vaporizers I do not think it matters which way they are hooked?  Read the instructions before taking my word for it...   I do know that some "idiot" hooked MY varox vaporizer up backwards, and didnt realize it until he was finished treating hives..  still works fine....
   Dribble method...

   Heinz Kaemmerer of Heilyser Technology says:

“You can treat your colonies with a liquid mixture of OA and sugar but be careful. The liquid acid shortens the life of the bees. There is no problem during summer because the bee’s life not longer than approximately 6 weeks. The problem starts with winter bees–do not treat your winter bees more than one time with liquid OA. When using liquid OA bees get wet and have to clean each other. The result is, the acid ends up in their stomach and during winter without a cleaning flight it shortens the life of the bees. Two treatments on winter bees might kill the colony. Liquid OA is a slow killer and bees will probably die after a few weeks or month instead reaching the next season.”

   I stick with the vapor.. dont like cutting so many lives short!   

Is this how you bleach the inside of your boxes too?

[LazyBkpr]

  I didnt like the "shorten the life of the bees" part, so i am undergoing tests to see if the VAPOR will also bleach the frames.. at this time in testing, i have come to no clear conclusions, so the testing will have to continue a little longer..................