Author Topic: Oxalic Acid Discussion  (Read 62975 times)

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Offline Ray4852

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2014, 07:27:20 pm »
I wouldn’t let oxalic acid vapor stop you from selling queens and nucs. It might never get approved. I also use it. This year I treated 6 times with it. I treat my hives with the supers off for four hours. Its by far the best mite treatment out there. I can treat anytime when the temp is above 40 degrees. I start treating in march and treat thru out the year if I see any mites.   

Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2014, 10:07:43 pm »
I too use OAV to treat my hives, when I need to treat. I only treat when I see evidence I need too. Perry has a very real & valid point. Therefore I do NOT treat with any supers on the hive. Not that I think it would be a problem because I don't. But because OAV is not approved in my state. Our state apiarist said it not illegal, just not approved. Hoping that will change soon since I want to start selling nucs & queens and I can't if I use OAV.

Most use it to treat the inside of their wooden boxes.   ;D  If mites die, well, that's just a side effect.

I assume you're referring to Mike Studer?  He told me about the same thing when I asked him about using BT for wax moths.
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Offline kiwimana

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2014, 11:56:43 pm »
Hi,

Yes we use it on our hives, it works well the dangers can be removed if you seal the hive when treating.

Here is a video of me using the vaporizer we sell, we are happy to ship anyway in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca1ibcFzMxw

Thanks...Gary
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We blog and podcast at http://kiwimana.co.nz

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2014, 12:16:05 pm »
Thats good to know.  I will write down your website info so I can give it to folks interested in OAV..

   I'm sorry if this is not politically correct..  but I often see folks petrified of how "dangerous" those vapors are...  A recent research article I read about OAV precluded the use of vapor because it is so dangerous..   Really?  So you would rather make your bees ingest the liquid and shorten their already short lives?

  Having treated better than 300 times..  it makes me wonder if those folks are just ignorant or if they have some OTHER reason for putting down vaporization?   Maybe those people are unable to use common sense or even a small amount of caution?  Because the smallest amount of either is all it takes to be completely, totally, and beyond any doubt safe, while using the vaporizor..   To me, its like saying  DONT SWIM! You will get water in your lungs and drown!   In the same context, that makes water a VERY deadly substance to be near.
    So I think int he future I will have to start condemning swimming and see if I can get it outlawed!!  FOR YOUR SAFETY!
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Offline Ray4852

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2014, 01:04:44 pm »
 I use a paper mask N-95. My varrox vaporizer comes with a long power cord to make oav very safe to use. I stand back away from the oav vapor for 3 minutes. Disconnect the power and wait 7 minutes more. Pull out the vaporizer and go on to the next hive. I can treat 6 hives, hour and half. I'm thinking about getting another vaporizer to cut my time in half. What I like about oav. I can treat during march to check my mite load. If my hives need treating I treat right away. I couldn’t treat with the mite away pads during march because its to temp sensitive.

Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2014, 01:56:47 pm »
Hey Scott.
It does seem rather farcical, but using something that is "not approved", whether it works or not, is dangerous or not, legal to use, etc etc. can make a lawyer somewhere rich if anything comes up.
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Offline Ray4852

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2014, 02:34:33 pm »
 What are we suppose to do. Let our bees die because its not approve for beekeeping.

Offline Jen

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 02:46:03 pm »
I agree Ray. I have heard in my area that the bee inspectors ask what kind of treatment is used for mites, if the beeks say OA, the inspectors say "Okay"   :)
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2014, 02:52:55 pm »
We use dangerous chemicals everyday.  We manage.  Its a wonder more of us don't die in gasoline fires.....  :)
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2014, 02:54:42 pm »
I agree Ray. I have heard in my area that the bee inspectors ask what kind of treatment is used for mites, if the beeks say OA, the inspectors say "Okay"   :)
I wish I could say that Jen, I really do.  Its the elephant in the room around here.  :)
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Offline Jen

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2014, 03:24:21 pm »
Hi Lee,

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48

This is a nice link for the foods that people eat with oxalic acids in them.

Tell the women beeks in your club that CHOCOLATE and RED GRAPES = WINE, has oxalic acid in them! That oughta do it  ;) ;D
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Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2014, 05:18:02 pm »
I agree Ray. I have heard in my area that the bee inspectors ask what kind of treatment is used for mites, if the beeks say OA, the inspectors say "Okay"   :)

just keep a couple of maqs around.
Greg Whitehead
Ten Mile, TN
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Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2014, 05:20:30 pm »
What are we suppose to do. Let our bees die because its not approve for beekeeping.

Again, I am not saying don't use it, and by no means let your bees die. When I get to the point where the choice is live bees or honey crop, I will forgo the honey crop. What I am saying is if you sell honey, and use a non-approved product in your hive, and someone gets sick or complains......................
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2014, 06:22:35 pm »
Hey Scott.
It does seem rather farcical, but using something that is "not approved", whether it works or not, is dangerous or not, legal to use, etc etc. can make a lawyer somewhere rich if anything comes up.

   Please dont misunderstand PerryMeister..  I was speaking of people who claim it is so terribly dangerous to use OA in Vapor form..     As I understand, there is a movement to get it approved in the US, and it will inevitably go through, but is being slowed down as much as possible by those who wish to keep selling their dumbed down nerve gas and other nastyness to beekeepers.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2014, 06:34:06 pm »
I would probably do the same as ya'll (did I say that right?) if I was down there and in your shoes.  ;D
I just want to make sure folks make informed choices and be aware there can always be consequences to our actions.
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Offline Ray4852

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2014, 11:44:42 pm »
What makes laugh, the worst stuff we can put in our hives is Fumagilin-B. In the US, Its approved, not allowed in Europe because they claim it causes birth defects in new born babies.

Offline riverbee

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2014, 01:36:09 am »
"What makes laugh, the worst stuff we can put in our hives is Fumagilin-B. In the US, Its approved, not allowed in Europe because they claim it causes birth defects in new born babies. "

sorry ray what? not sure what the europeans are doing, i just use the stuff to treat my bees with. let me ask you this.....so you are wearing a mask to treat your hives with oxalic acid and stand back away from the hives?  why?  and i think i read you have treated your bees 6 or more times in one season?  with supers off a short period of time?  then put them back on?  so you are using a product that is not approved?

what do you treat your bees with if you suspect or  have a nosema infection?  or are you going to let them suffer and die? actually, by the time one realizes the colony has or might have nosema, they probably are already weakened/and or died off.  fumagillin is approved.

you treat for mites, why wouldn't you treat for nosema?

fumagillin is really not the 'worst stuff' we can put in our hives. like lee said we use dangerous chemicals, and i might add all sorts of things on our bees. amazing they survive.

btw all lawyers are not always looking to get rich on our stupid mistakes.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2014, 01:42:52 am »
I think he was pointing out the juxtaposition in treatments.  Most other countries have approved OA, and some of those countries have banned Fumagillin  While here, we can use the Fumagilin and the OA is not legal.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2014, 01:52:39 am »
i get that scott......
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Discussion
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2014, 02:02:40 am »
OK.....   :yes:    :o   
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!