Sumac and Sumac Honey

[riverbee]

i recently read an article in bee culture about sumac and sumac honey.  we have sumacs here wisconsin. primarily staghorn sumac, but also some other varieties, i guess i have always taken the sumac's for granted.  i know the bees work these shrub/trees prolifically for pollen and honey. 

on another thread, we were discussing the aromas and also taste of freshly extracted honey's and some honey having a not so great aroma and a bitter taste.  i think jack mentioned he had some honey that had a bitter taste to it, but later mellowed out and was good.  i think lee asked if bitter tasting honey later mellowed out. maybe it is/was sumac?  sometimes we have a pretty good idea of where the bees get the nectar, often times not.  would like to share some of the info from the article: (Bee Culture November 2014):

"Bee  Value Of Sumacs

During favorable weather, these superior bee plants can yield  considerable nectar and pollen.  Bees collect the pollen in early morning and nectar later in the day.  Rain can affect the nectar flow, which lasts about three weeks.  Sometimes, the honey can result in a strong aroma around the hives.

Typically, the high quality,  mild tasting honey is golden amber.  When fresh, this sometimes has a bitter or unpleasant taste.  However, it mellows with time."

the article mentions 15 native species of sumacs in the united states and canada, with 120 species worldwide; those native to the usa and canda are: Fragrant sumac, Shining sumac , Smooth sumac, Staghorn sumac, Chinese sumac, Chinese gall, Coral sumac, Green sumac, Mearn's sumac, Kearny's sumac, Laurel sumac, Lemonade berry, Prairie or Lance-leaf sumac, Squawbush sumac, and Sugar bush.

the honey aroma/taste described in the article from sumacs: "amber to golden color honey and heavily bodied, little aroma to unpleasant, slow to granulate, waxy.  initially bitter tasting, but later develops a mellow rich flavor, or flavor improves with age."

also sumacs are good smoker fuel.....

in John Lovells book; Honey Plants of North America, i think the author of the bee culture article pretty much echoed much of Lovell's research and descriptions.  Lovell goes into great detail about each of these sumacs, the pollen, nectar and description of the honey.

so perhaps you beeks,perry, jack and lee are sitting on some sumac honey?

do you know what sumac variety/s grow in your area and near where your bees would visit?

[Riverrat]

A few years back we had a late freeze that wiped out most blooms the bees normally work in the spring.  Sumac came into bloom and we got a real dark almost like motor oil honey.  When I extracted and seen the honey I was surprised to say the least.  It turned out to be the best seller I have had for honey and still have people asking for it but haven't had any since.

[Lburou]

Prairie Flameleaf Sumac is native to my area.  Haven't noticed any strange aroma in the spring, just when our broom weed blooms this time of year -see pics below.  Fields are yellow with broom weed bloom now until frost.  Hives working broom weed really stink. 

[brooksbeefarm]

Fragrant, Shining,Smooth,And Staghorn, Sumac, are the ones that come to mind, it is within 25ft. to 100ft. from all my bee yards. I have one yard that i have to keep it cut back within 10ft of there entrance, when it is in bloom the girls are all over it. I use to put some of the seed in my mouth while quail hunting, if you keep it in your cheek it gives you a lemon taste, chewing on the bark of a small stick from a Sassafras tree wasn't bad either . The girls must of had a field day on the persimmon trees this year, they are bending over with fruit,we've had one hard frost on them and the weatherman says temp in the teens next week. Now if i can beat the deer and possums to them i'll pick a bucket full to eat as is and talk my wife into making persimmon bread. . Jack

[Bakersdozen]

also sumacs are good smoker fuel.....

do you know what sumac variety/s grow in your area and near where your bees would visit?

I was aware of the seeds pods making good smoker fuel.  One guy I know swears by it.  I will say that it makes a great smelling cool smoke in the smoker.
Like Jack, we have smooth, aromatic, staghorn (not so much) and winged sumac.

[lazy shooter]

Sumac makes a beautiful road side plant here, but I doubt that we have enough of it to make a significant honey flow.  It has beautiful yellow to red autumn foliage.  I think we have Melody Sumac.  Note:  I think

[riverbee]

"I was aware of the seeds pods making good smoker fuel.  One guy I know swears by it.  I will say that it makes a great smelling cool smoke in the smoker."

i didn't, but now that i do, i will have to try it, especially if it smells good, thanks bakers.

[brooksbeefarm]

The sumac foliage in my area is a dark red and the first leaves to turn color in the fall. It does make good smoker fuel if the seed pods are dry. I have heard beekeepers say it also makes mites fall off and probably does, but wouldn't any smoke do that<< Jack

[Bakersdozen]

[quote author=brooksbeefarm link=topic=2845.msg38454#msg38454 date=141529675
It does make good smoker fuel if the seed pods are dry. I have heard beekeepers say it also makes mites fall off and probably does, but wouldn't any smoke do that<< Jack
[/quote]

Well, for fear of sounding nutty, I was going to say that the beekeeper that I referred to early, swears he doesn't have mites because of using sumac pods in the smoker.  He said an old lady that mentored him swore by sumac pods too.

Yes, the seed pods have to be dry.  I stop along side the road with my knife and collect pods in late winter or early spring.  By then they are really covered in gravel road dust. 

[riverbee]

nope bakers, not nutty, and as jack said.......read that to somewhere along the way, about using sumac pods in the smoker and mites being knocked down.

[lazy shooter]

The old timers in East Texas called it "poison" sumac.  I wonder if it is sometimes toxic to mammals? 

[barry42001]

There is a poison sumac, is like poison oak, or poison ivy.

[Riverrat]

There is a poison sumac, is like poison oak, or poison ivy.

When I was selling the dark honey and mentioned it could be sumac.  The usual question I would get.  Can I get poison sumac from it. IT was all I could do to keep from saying "only if you eat it"

[riverbee]

"The old timers in East Texas called it "poison" sumac.  I wonder if it is sometimes toxic to mammals? "

"There is a poison sumac, is like poison oak, or poison ivy."

yes lazy and barry, some folks refer to the poison ivy/oaks as 'sumac'.  Lovell mentions that there are 17 species of poisonous sumacs, but only describes a few;  poison ivy or oak as you mentioned barry, poison dogwood or elder, and coral sumac (also known as poisonwood or doctor gum). 

as far as the toxicity to mammals, humans are the only species allergic to the poisonous sumac species. for the rest of nature, it serves as a food source. for example there are seventy-five bird species, including turkey, bob-white quail, and mockingbirds that eat the fruit. white-tailed deer, and other grazing animals, eat the leaves.

[barry42001]

Above mentioned are have a secretions on mostly their leaves, that are highly irritating to profoundly toxic  depending on your individual allergy levels. Most people are to some degree allergic to these substances. The general rules are leaves in threes, shiny leaves, and oils not necessarily confined to the leaf surfaces. Burning these plants vaporize the resins and then you can inhale them....far worse then skin contact.

[brooksbeefarm]

Growing up on the farm the saying was, 3 leaf, leave it be. Jack