Possible reconfiguration of hive boxes today

[Jen]

Nice weekend to tie up the last inspection. This hive was the first swarm from the mother hive this last spring. It has done exceptionally well and is a large colony, purchased queen in late spring, she's a keeper. I want to make this the last time I get into this hive if possible.

My question is: If the bottom deep has no capped brood left in it and the bees have move up to the middle medium, should I kick out the bottom deep?

[Ray4852]

 What you could do now, put on a slatted rack your bees will move down when they need it. I have slatted racks on all of my hives. The bottom box is always full of bees. two of my hives have 3 brood deeps. I like this setup because I can sit back and not worry about swarming. My bees have plenty of room to work.

[Jen]

Hi Ray    This is an interesting concept and I have seen it before but don't know much about the idea. I've been taught that the bees move up as the weather gets colder, not down. I like the idea in the spring tho, could have used an idea like this with the swarming that went on with my hive last spring. But I didn't know at the time that the hive was headed for 10 swarms and cast swarms 

[Ray4852]

Jen

if you remove your bottom box now. Your hive will swarm in the spring. swarms are caused by the beekeeper because we didn’t give the queen room to lay eggs. My climate is very short for keeping bees. I cant get any local queens in the spring. I have to wait till June. What I have been doing the last 3 years. I started using 3 deeps with slatted racks. No swarms yet. Using 3 deep hives is not for everybody. There not fun to work on. The extra deep brood box keeps the bees happy till I can get some queens to make up nucs.  Big drawback with 3 deeps. They turn into a mite factory. 


 http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/fall_management.html

[Gypsi]

I can see the mite factory problem with 3 deeps.   I'd forgotten about the slatted racks. Need to look into them

[riverbee]

"My question is: If the bottom deep has no capped brood left in it and the bees have move up to the middle medium, should I kick out the bottom deep?"

jen, leave it as is. this is normal for no capped brood going into winter months, your queen shut down and all winter bees have hatched out. bees do move up to stores. are there any bees on these bottom deep frames or any capped honey?  just make sure the bees have feed above them in that medium to overwinter in your climate. in  your spring the bees and queen will move down as spring temps provide. your queen will have room to lay, and give you some leeway to decide when to divide or do your best to subvert or minimize any swarming.

[Jen]

Thanks everyone, this is what i found with this hive:

Did see the queen    Not as many bees as I hoped for, but I believe this is the hive that had the worst mites with deformed wing virus, so some loss there from varroa. That's been taken care of.

Also, it has occured to me that all my hives now have fumigilin in them, so I hesitate removing any frames that have uncapped syrup in them.

I don't think this hive has enough stores.

Deep, medium, medium


TOP MEDIUM
80% capped honey, 9 out of 10 frames looked like this


MIDDLE MEDIUM
Three center frames with a patches of brood and larvae 




The rest of the frames, uncapped syrup




DEEP - BROOD BOX
Three frames of scattered brood and a some larvae




The rest of the frames, not much left

[Ray4852]

Jen

looks good to me. I see young larva. I cant tell if you have enough honey stores. Lift up the back end of hive. feel heavy. If not feed sugar. If your temp is below 40. take away the syrup. You don’t need moisture in the hive. Feed fondant or plain sugar over a spacer rim.

[Jen]

Hiya Ray, isn't it a little early to feed fondant and sugar? I've been reading that this time of year that the bees percieve it as trash and will cart it out.

Presently, all three hives have between 40 and 60 pounds of honey. I know I'll have to feed later this winter. Or I will put on winter patties when I wrap the hives later this month. Have you ever heard of winter patties? I make my own, sure makes the house smell good when making them

[Jen]

I have two issues stirring around in my head about this hive configuration.

1. The honey super is on top. The middle super which is full of uncapped syrup is in the middle separating the bees below from the honey super on top.

However, there are two frames with a patch of brood in the middle medium. I don't want to separate that brood from the brood directly below in the deep. Can I put those two medium frames of brood into the bottom deep? the frames are shorter than deep frames. My only real concern is the strong possibility that there will be wonky comb in the spring.

[riverbee]

jen, leave the hive configuration alone, as it is now, don't go moving around frames.

[pistolpete]

Things look good to me as well.  You may have to feed in spring, but there seems plenty to take them through the winter.  I'd say the next time you need to look into that hive is a warm day at the end of February.

[iddee]

DITTO the above.

BACK OFF, BOOGALOO !

[Jen]

Iddee- "DITTO the above.  BACK OFF, BOOGALOO !

    Mr. Wizard! with all due respect, I am not finished being a pain in the donkey on this issue. Hang in there with me like you always have..        

Riv- "jen, leave the hive configuration alone, as it is now, don't go moving around frames.

    Okay I won't do that 

Question #2 regarding whether the bees should eat the honey first or the fumigilin syrup ~

Inspections are done on the other two hives, I was instructed to make sure that the super with the capped honey should be right above the brood box so the bees don't have to go far to consume the honey over the winter, so I did that. 'I'm thinking' If I leave this hive the way it is per instruction, the bees will move up to the middle medium and cluster there... then the cluster will be right under the honey super. This is what we want right?

[riverbee]

jen,
(can't help but laugh over the boogaloo)...........

Question #2 regarding whether the bees should eat the honey first or the fumigilin syrup ~
"I was instructed to make sure that the super with the capped honey should be right above the brood box so the bees don't have to go far to consume the honey over the winter, so I did that. 'I'm thinking' If I leave this hive the way it is per instruction, the bees will move up to the middle medium and cluster there... then the cluster will be right under the honey super. This is what we want right?"

doesn't matter what stores they go through first, but question for you jen, did you move the medium boxes around? 

[Jen]

Riv- "(can't help but laugh over the boogaloo)...........

     If he would have been standing in front of me I would have honked his nose a good one 

Nope, I didn't move the meds, just inspected and put them back in the same order. I'm okay with the arrangement it's in now, but when I was reading about fumigilin (I've never used before) and how it's good for the bees to get the fumigilin stored in the back part of the comb, and then continue to store the plain syrup in front of that fumigilin... that means that the fumigilin syrup will be there later in the winter when the bees need it the most. So my thoughts were, to switch the two meds so that the bees eat the honey first, then later in the winter they will have worked their way up to the super that has the fumig syrup ready for them.

Maybe it doesn't matter, but I would like to be sure... well as sure as a beek can be 

[iddee]

I meant back off the hives, Jen. Not the questions. Keep the questions coming, just let the hives take care of themselves.  There is such a thing as ""Love'em to death"".

[riverbee]

"So my thoughts were, to switch the two meds so that the bees eat the honey first, then later in the winter they will have worked their way up to the super that has the fumig syrup ready for them.
Maybe it doesn't matter, but I would like to be sure... well as sure as a beek can be"

like iddee said, i would just leave the mediums on the way they are.

[Jen]

Iddee- "I meant back off the hives, Jen. Not the questions. Keep the questions coming, just let the hives take care of themselves.  There is such a thing as ""Love'em to death"".

        saying this with respect and kindness ~ I know Mr. Wizard... you have strongly recommended for me to take a vacation before. Keep in mind that the first three years I had casualty after casualty. When I joined this forum I went back to the beginning and started over. This has been a PHENOMENAL year of learning for me. So much so that when our lifelong friend Rich decided to join me in bee keeping three years ago, I was delighted to have a comrad. He stuck to his bee keeping ways of 50 years ago, which was set up the hive leave them alone and they will give you honey. Well guess what, everyone of his hives has died and the existing one now is going down. And what do I have? I went from 1 hive to 10 hives this spring, thru time I gave some away, and I combined others. To date, I have three strong productive hives... Did I love them too much... I don't know, I just do what comes naturally. In my eyes, the proof is in the pudding ~ 

[iddee]

No, Jen. You did what comes naturally for 3 years. You started having success when you learned to act at the right time and do nothing at the other times. That's the secret. "Do what is needed when it is needed, then leave them alone until something else is needed".  Not wanted by the keep, but needed by the bees.

I have not only told you to lay back at times, but have also told you to act ASAP, as in yesterday. You have picked up fast and are doing well, but you still need a prod or a brake action now and then.

Hang in there, in a couple of years you will be teaching beekeeping.  You have earned my respect quite well.