Author Topic: Getting Grumpy in my old age (Read 10963 times)

brooksbeefarm · « **on:** November 19, 2014, 01:05:31 pm »

Our current club president and some of the speakers that have given presentations at our meetings have given the impression that protective gear isn't necessary

. They have shown video's of them working hives and doing cutouts without protective gear, and there are many new beekeepers that are starting beekeeping and some that are getting ready to take our coming beekeeping school? Well, i sent a e-mail to them that i thought that was the wrong thing to do, that it could cause serious injury our possibly death to new beekeepers.(and old)That bees are a wild animal and not to be trusted, i understand that they don't want new beekeepers to fear bees, but they are what they are.The vise president agreed with me and our club meeting is next Tues. Older beekeepers can tell most of the time if they need a net or gloves right off, but a new beekeeper won't until it's to late. Jack

efmesch · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2014, 01:25:08 pm »

I wouldn't recommend starting off with bees unprotected. It might not deterr the ambitious newbees from continuing but it certainly carries risks. Before a beek is ready to work his hives without protective gear, he/she needs to develop the confidence and technique that will avoid upsetting the girls and sending them off into a frenzy. If you start off getting plenty of stings, confidence will come much more slowly.

After you've mastered the arts of handling the bees properly, you can take off your gloves, your veil. your shirt your.....just like----

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2014, 02:24:27 pm »

I couldn't agree with efmesch and Jack more. I am the secretary of our bee club. We host a beginning beekeeper class in the spring. Many of the women, at the beginning beekeeping class, will ask about the cost of protective equipment and is it necessary. I let them know that I still suit up fully every time I enter a hive. I follow it with "You don't want to be nervous when working your hives. You should wear as much equipment as you feel comfortable." Those that hesitate, I remind them that a few stings might make them leery to go back into the hive. Good beekeepers check their hives often and beginning beekeepers will learn more if they check their hives frequently.

Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2014, 02:54:46 pm »

Ef- "After you've mastered the arts of handling the bees properly, you can take off your gloves, your veil. your shirt your.....just like-

Ef! That soo funny! Even if I am without veil, gloves or shirt, of which often I am, I would still keep my pants on! A sting in the hoo hoo is no laughing matter

efmesch · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2014, 03:34:18 pm »

Jen, believe it or not, I wasn't hinting at you.

I won't give any more info as to whom it might apply......

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2014, 03:50:26 pm »

Good advice from all.

Thanks for the confirmation Ef, I didn't take it personal in any way, just adding some humor to the topic

iddee · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2014, 04:02:37 pm »

I agree. They should always wear what they are comfortable with. Never what another person recommends, just because they said so. Each person is different.

Jen, I won't say who Ef was referencing, but here's a hint.

Ray4852 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2014, 05:04:07 pm »

Its takes one toxic bee to put you in the hospital. Just think one hive can have over 40 thousand bees. I know. I'm allergic to honeybees. I can tell you a story what happen to me. On a cloudy cool day I cut the grass around my hives without my veil. I got stung 4 times in the face, 15 minutes later I new I had a problem. I could feel my heart had a funny beat, I broke out with the hives from head to foot. I itched from head to foot, the hives on my back had puss coming out. My tongue swelled a little along with my throat. Wife gave me benadryl. I took a warm bath. I felt better. Wife made me go to the hospital. Hospital hooked me up to an IV. I lay there for 2 hours. Doc came in and told me my next bee sting could be very serious. I followed up with an allergy doctor right away. Doctor sent me out to get a blood test for four groups of bees. Test came back a week later. I'm allergic to the bees I love to keep. All other bees I’m OK. Doc said if I want to keep my bees I have to get the shots for 3 to 5 years. I'm two years into the program now. I still get stung a little but no problems. The shots are working. Every time I go into my hives now I fully protect myself, cut the grass around my hives I suit up too. I can still play with the bees but I have to be smarter. When I here these people brag that they get stung 30 times. I laugh. They don’t know how lucky they are to be alive. Bees are nature. They sting because that’s how they protect themselves. Govern yourself accordingly.

Perry · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2014, 05:56:18 pm »

I've been stung most times I go out and work the bees it seems as of late. Some days multiple, but I certainly wouldn't brag about it!

When it happens I can attest to the fact that it is a direct result of me being either lazy, careless, foolish, or a combination of any 2 and sometimes 3.

minz · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:02:58 pm »

End of season I took a bunch when I forced the hives into the back of the truck and broke them open. They itched some. After winter and a layoff of getting stung I swell up and it really bugs me. I hate getting it in the face, an aggressive bee in my eyes still gets a quick reaction. What is the point other than ego? It is not unusual for me to get all done and notice I did not zip my hood, but I always put it on.
I don’t know what a ho ho is but I would guess by the name of it that’s what you say when the stinger goes in!

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:34:13 pm »

People who get stung alot get that spacey stare look, What you don't believe me?? Okay,then look at perrys avatar.

Jack

Jen · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:47:12 pm »

Jack Jack Jack! I've been stung hundreds of time and it hasn't given me the spacey stare look....

it was already there before I became a beekeeper... procuct of the 60's I guess

riverbee · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2014, 07:09:05 pm »

i agree with you jack, and i don't think your getting grumpy about it, i think you are being practical. "Older beekeepers can tell most of the time if they need a net or gloves right off, but a new beekeeper won't until it's to late."

at the minimum, a veil, a pair of gloves maybe, or a jacket. AND a smoker. beginning beeks have not built up the sting immunity, so they may suffer from larger local reactions, maybe not. also i have seen new beeks panic when bees coming rolling out of the hive. many of us seasoned beeks still suffer from larger local reactions, or even systemic reactions, many do not, so each of us work our bees accordingly. taking a sting on the hands is one thing, taking stings to the face, nose ear or eyelids is another. i too think, like others have said, new beeks sometimes need the confidence that the protection can give them to build their confidence until a time that they are comfortable and/or do not suffer so badly from sting reactions. it's just common sense.

and like ray said, it only takes one sting for someone that doesn't know they are allergic, but on the flip side, a sting through a glove or protective gear will also land you in an er room, if you are allergic. awareness of sting reactions ought to be also covered, and what to do.

i can honestly say i always thought i was a good keep when working my bees before the allergy. i think ray might agree with me on this? developing the allergy made me a better beekeeper in many ways. and ray, beeks don't realize how fortunate they are not to be strapped with the allergy.

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2014, 07:27:02 pm »

Riv- "i agree with you jack, and i don't think your getting grumpy about it, i think you are being practical

Agreed! and I think you should stop biting your tongue and speak up... in a gentlemanly way of course. You know? like here on the forum...

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2014, 07:50:03 pm »

I'm gonna throw in on this as well.. I started, and worked bees for a LOT of years without having any idea there was such a thing as a veil. I learned the hard way I was not allergic to bees.
With good bees, protective gear is not always necessary, but there are STILL times when the bees will be unhappy. When being robbed, during a dearth, and even just in the fall when they have winter stores to protect. During those times having protective gear will help keep a new beekeeper from getting upset and frustrated at the VERY least.. ALIVE at the very worst..
With the threat of AHB genetics a real possibility having the gear available is mandatory. No, we dont have it regularly, but it does, and WILL show up here and there. Bees with bad attitudes, and even bees with AHB Genetics may seem calm and nice when first establishing their hive, and then change dramatically when they have something to defend.
NOT using gear is a personal choice. Having gear available is not not a choice. EVERY beekeeper should have the gear. If they choose to use it or not must be entirely up to them.
Anyone telling a NEW beekeeper they do not need gear needs a knuckle bump on the top of the head! So, no, I do not believe you are being grumpy either.

Lburou · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2014, 08:40:45 pm »

Those 'teachers' of beekeeping have a standing invitation to come visit my Texas bees. ;-) That practice would stop in a New York minute. Nevertheless, some folks in my Club are getting lessons from an unnamed someone who 'tunes in with the bees' without protection and thinks everyone should learn how....

The thing about visiting a beehive is that the situation can be just fine for a while, but change in an instant with a whiff of alarm pheromone -that means you were late with the smoke, or you just dropped a frame, or squashed some bees, or, otherwise disturbed the bees with a bump or careless moment. And, it happens whether you are wearing protection or not. I work my bees everyday without gloves, but wear them at your house or when harvesting honey, moving hives or splitting, and maybe if its cold outside.

Jack, you were correct to point out the failure to use PPE.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:03:33 pm »

Working hives with out gear sometimes comes across as a reflection of how good a beekeeper you are. One almost gets the sense that beekeepers that don't use protective equipment feel superior. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone because this is the vibe I get at bee meetings and several online forums. I read and hear comments and these danged beekeepers that act like their the danged Bee Whisperer! Dang it!

I still feel the best philosophy is to wear what you are comfortable with. When I go out to the hives and don't want to put on a suit and veil and gloves, I remind myself how miserable I would be and unable to function if something critical, like my hands, got stung. Hey, I even wear a headband over my ears under the veil because somehow they seem to find my ears.

Ray4852 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:24:34 pm »

Riverbee

I think we both agree, our allergies made us better beekeepers. I spend more time watching them come and go. I can tell if my hives have a queen or not, it makes no sense for me to open a hive to see if the hive is doing OK. The bee traffic coming and going tells me the condition of the hive. I make sure my hive has plenty of room for the queen to lay eggs. When its time for me to open my hives. I pick the right time to open it. Weather must be good and around 2 o’clock when most of the forgers are out collecting pollen. I never open a hive on a bad day. My veil is always on when I go near my hives. I'm fully protected when I open my hives. They get plenty of smoke.

lazy shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:38:55 pm »

Most of my bees came from Lborou's stock, so I can attest to the fact that the BeeWeaver genetics produce some fairly hot bees. Lborou is a very accomplished beekeeper, having kept bees in several states over several decades, and he wears a hood and jacket when working our bees. My bees are very nice when the inspection starts with a some smoke and a lot of patience, but they get more riled up as time passes and before you are finished they are crawling on your clothes looking for an opening. My first bees were Italians from an old Texas beekeeper, and they were very tame. You could walk up and lift the lid off of a hive and look inside without even being butted by a guard bee. Sometimes my BeeWeaver's sting you when you are 20 feet from the hive.

One of the above posters speaks of people that think they are bee "whisperers." I think that is true, and I think those people are a danger to beginning beekeepers.

It's still a relatively free country, so if one wants to risk their health and well being following dangerous procedures then they can proceed at their own risk and peril.

riverbee · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:45:43 pm »

ray, thanks, i think it's true. i do wear full protection as well, and need to for now. maybe that will change again someday. i would like nothing more than just wearing a veil. i am just grateful to be able to keep bees at this point.

"Working hives with out gear sometimes comes across as a reflection of how good a beekeeper you are. One almost gets the sense that beekeepers that don't use protective equipment feel superior. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone because this is the vibe I get at bee meetings and several online forums. I read and hear comments and these danged beekeepers that act like their the danged Bee Whisperer! Dang it!"

great post bakers, i sometimes get that thought as well, and it is more from guys than it is the ladies. working bees without gear IMHO has nothing to do with how good a keep you are, and they are not 'bee whisperers' as they may purport to be.... it's how foolish you want to be.........because YOU WILL get stung.......

and would agree with what lazy just said......"One of the above posters speaks of people that think they are bee "whisperers." I think that is true, and I think those people are a danger to beginning beekeepers.
It's still a relatively free country, so if one wants to risk their health and well being following dangerous procedures then they can proceed at their own risk and peril."

also great post lee,
"Those 'teachers' of beekeeping have a standing invitation to come visit my Texas bees. ;-) That practice would stop in a New York minute."
your texas bees? i would also invite anyone to come visit my russians/mutts, even on a good day, sometimes they will send you running for a veil!
that practice would stop in a WISCONSIN minute........

but great point about how things change in a hive, new beeks are not typically aware of these changes, and how they can happen.