2015: THE PLAN

[tedh]

Hi Everyone,

Just so you know, the first part of this plan has been set in motion.  That is, I'm on a list to receive 4 packages of bees (Italians)  coming spring (2015).

If our hives make it through winter (we have 2) we plan to make a split (artificial swarm) and requeen them, or it, with VSH (Varroa Sensitive Hygienic) queens.  We will then start the packages on undrawn plasticell foundation.  If one of our hives dies off this winter we'll be able to start each package with some frames of drawn foundation.  If both hives expire we'll start each package off on more frames of drawn foundation.  We intend to requeen the packages with VSH queens in late June to mid July, the timing of course will be "bee determined" .  We intend to take the package queens, some frames of brood and stores and start 4 nucs.  Though this remains to be seen, our hope is to also purchase a couple (2) nucs from LazyBkpr.  We'll need to see how the winter plays out for him and his bees.  We hope to be able to give any nucs we receive some drawn foundation but that may or may not happen.  The goal will be to build up the nucs from Scott into hives.  And any nucs we create will be used as a learning tool.  We hope to figure out the art of maintaining and wintering nucs.  If we fail at that we can consider our nucs as "wax factories"

I know it's early, but I'm also the guy that will start plants under grow lights in the basement in January just to remind myself that spring WILL come.

Any thoughts on THE PLAN?  Thanks, Ted

[LazyBkpr]

Not a bad plan..
   Requeening with good queens and using the package queens to get the nucs up and going.  Will you also requeen the nucs or see if those package queens can get them through the winter?


   I have 4 nucs I have some confidence in.. two that are fair and I have hopes for, and four of them that I give less than a 50% chance..
  If the winter keeps up at this normal pace I think the bees will be OK..  a few days of COLD, and a 50 degree day, a couple weeks of COLD and a 50 degree day etc..  We are already ahead of last years curve. By this time last November it was below 0.. not below freezing.. below ZERO.. and it remained that way until February..  I see another 50 ish degree day forecast in the next ten days.. today the wind is howling and its 18 degrees F.
   I will have 20 to 30 nucs going by July next year in hopes of overwintering them.  With 20ish acres planted for bee pasture I also have high hopes that there will be a greater surplus of honey for them to overwinter on.
   I think.. I would plan on those packages superseding the queens..   If Tim gets the packages from his father they may be better queens than the ones he got from that other fellow. We'll find out in the spring!

[tedh]

My plan at this point is to try to overwinter the nucs with the package queens.  As I said, if they make it...fine...if not there will be more drawn frames for the following year.  But then, it's early, plenty of time to rethink "THE PLAN".  Looks kinda important with all caps!

You think the packages will supersede their queens before I make the nucs?  Ted

[Perry]

I don't know much about package queens, but when I have bought imported queens to make nucs for sale in the spring, it can be a crap-shoot from one year to the next. This past year was great, 20 for 20 acceptance and no early supercedure was brought to my attention. The year before that was tough.

[LazyBkpr]

I think Perrys explanation of a crap shoot best suits the situation with package queens..

   9 of 10 packages I got superseded the queen. Three of them within the first week, then one by one over the course of the following four months. It seemed as though I could not open at least one of those hives started with packages without finding queen cells.
   I know Tim got those particular packages from a source other than his father, and that he deals with three or four different suppliers, so the crap shoot comes back into effect there as well..

   I allowed those hives to requeen themselves, and thats not necessarily a bad thing, the virgin queens mating with local drones may give them a better chance at overwintering. I think the only skip in your record might be if they are in the process of replacing their queen when the new queens arrive..    Thats not necessarily a bad thing either.. start the nucs you planned to use the old queen in with one or two of the queen cells instead..  You will just have to insure NONE of those queen cells are left in the hive you want to install a laying queen..  If the Virgin emerges she will very likely kill the laying queen you bought. So the Plan is a good one as long as it has contingencies!

[pistolpete]

Your plan sounds sound .   Plans in bee keeping seldom survive the encounter with reality.   I like to think of them as goals, rather than plans.  Sounds like you want to go from 2 hives to 8.  Just keep in mind the time commitment that comes with that increase in your apiary. 

Also realise that a Nuc will only stay a Nuc for a few weeks.  A Nuc is a temporary arrangement and builds to a full colony in a month or two if conditions are good.  Bees housed in a 5 frame box will swarm at the drop of a hat.  So when people talk about wintering Nucs, it's usually ones that were made up late August/early September.

Starting a package with one or two drawn frames will give them a much faster start, because the queen can start laying right away.  So even if your hives survive, plan on robbing them of a couple of frames to help the packages.

[Marbees]

As long as you have the plan  it's a good thing.
As per Gary, my Irish brother, if you wake up without any plan, go back to bed 
I was going to suggest the same thing as pistolpete, use at least one drawn frame per nuc, so queen starts laying eggs from day one.

[LazyBkpr]

Also realise that a Nuc will only stay a Nuc for a few weeks.  A Nuc is a temporary arrangement and builds to a full colony in a month or two if conditions are good.  Bees housed in a 5 frame box will swarm at the drop of a hat.  So when people talk about wintering Nucs, it's usually ones that were made up late August/early September.

   It entirely depends on your intended purpose for that nuc. I have nucs going into winter that I managed all summer to KEEP them nucs. The trend today is for beekeepers of any size to keep and manage nucs based on a percentage of their number of hives.. Even if you have two hives, it is wise to maintain a nuc. The Nuc gives you resources if one of the hives is weak or the queen fails, etc, etc..  without robbing from your other, ONLY strong production hive to fix the weak hive..  If you have ten hives and ten nucs going into winter, and lose half of everything.. (five hives and five nucs) Come spring you still have ten hives. Hives that should ALL be production hives that year, EVEN if you steel a bit of brood and eggs to re start the nucs..
   Some folks use a nuc for a starter, or temporary hive.. if it is my intention to "start" a hive I use a ten frame medium box to do so.
   I keep 5 frame medium depth double nucs AS nucs so that I am, or will be, with luck, capable of selling queens, nucs, and STILL be self sustaining, without being forced to buy packages or nucs elsewhere.  Yes, they take a lot of managing...  Cant argue that point..  But I will say, that a nuc is perfect for a newer beekeeper that WANTS to get into the hives..  They can pester the nuc and let the main hive get on their way to growing. 

[Jen]

Geez Ted! You've only been at this for one season and you're already sounding like pro! I'm impressed! But I also know you are under Scott's wing, a great place to learn and grow ~ I have soo many questions that if I lived near Scott his wife would have shot my head off by now, just to shut me up!