Looking for answers

[tecumseh]

a snip of your observation followed by my own thoughts...

1. Found thousands and thousands of dead bees on the bottom board and a few dead still on frames and on top of inner cover.  No bees had their heads in the cells. < sounds like fall turn over to me.... ie a lot of bees simply get old at the same time and fall to the bottom of the box.  these older bees for quite understandable biological reason don't take cold very well.
2. After temps warmed up enough to check, I found a few bees still alive.  Not enough to cluster when the temps dropped.  < these may well have been younger bees or bees that emerged during or shortly after the cold spell.
3. Found sealed brood in the bottom and top box. < a vital clue and I suspect related to not only the age demographics of the hive but also the hive set up and the addition of the foudant.... since the bottom was very heavy the bees extended the brood cluster up and down and this elongated brood nest exposed the cluster to much more cold than would have been the case if the brood cluster was in one box/
4.  Found stores on the outside frames.  The bottom box is really heavy with capped honey. < another good clue... yes the bees may have well died from both cold and starvation if there were no feed frames close to the brood frames.
5.  I had put fondant on top and it was consumed. < this is what likely drew the brood cluster upward.  I am GUESSING HERE that initially the frames between the bottom box and the fondant was largely empty when you added the fondant.   
6. I had treated for mites this fall.  Mite counts were under control.  There wasn't much of a SHB problem. < observation like this are really important since they simply allow you to eliminate a lot of possible causes.
7.  This was a split I had made in the spring with a new queen. < I think you can rule out this as being any kind of a queen related problem.
8.  Due to the sudden cold snap, I wasn't able to get feeder pails on for very long. < ideally you 'should have' put on the pail feeders first, filled up any empty space and then added the fondant 'candy board' after that.
9.  I had top ventilation in place. < this would suggest to me that dripping water was not a factor in this hive's demise.
10. This was a 2 deep, 10 frame hive.  < is this pretty standard over wintering make up for a hive at your location?

and finally you did a most excellent job of specifying exactly what you witnessed and in a very easy to understand format.  good job.... and as I quite often tell the students at the TAMU Bee Lab sadly the largest learning opportunity only comes when disaster strikes. 

[Bakersdozen]

10. This was a 2 deep, 10 frame hive.  < is this pretty standard over wintering make up for a hive at your location?

sadly the largest learning opportunity only comes when disaster strikes. 

Thank you and all for your input.  Disaster is a cruel teacher. 

A 2 deep, 10 frame is quite the norm here.  Some folks go with 8 frame.  I have even over wintered a 5 frame double deep successfully.

I did provide feeder pails first, this fall, and then as I pulled those feeder pails I added the fondant for insurance.  In this case, that may have added to the problem.  My initial reaction from the location of the dead and dying was that the colony didn't cluster or didn't cluster in time because of sudden extreme drop in temperature.  This reaction may be wrong as I found the very large pile of bees in the center of the bottom board.

5.  Tec's response:  I am GUESSING HERE that the frames between the bottom box and the fondant were largely empty when you added the fondant.   My response:  You would be correct.  In the center was the brood and I found the food stores around the brood were empty. Still, I didn't find any little bee heads stuck in cells. 

A second thought I had was that the queen died right before the cold snap.  I was wondering if bees cluster only to keep the queen warm and cozy.  Let me explain...is the instinct to cluster is for the benefit of the queen?  Without a queen, they didn't have a reason to cluster?  Does anyone have any experience with a queenless hive clustering?

[Lburou]

I feel Like I've just been to school after reading your post tec, it takes us to the next level.  Thanks for the lessons.  Merry Christmas to you and yours!  :-)

Bakersdozen, I'd expect bees to cluster with or without a queen.   

[brooksbeefarm]

I have found hives without a queen early in the spring and alot of drones that wintered with them, so they had to cluster. Maybe they kept the fat boys to keep warm. Jack

[Ray4852]

My opinion if the hive is queen less they have no incentive to cluster up.  Baker I think your queen died because the bee cluster couldn’t get to her in time to keep her warm. In the spring the hive can live without a queen weather is changing everyday for the better. The hive tries to make a queen. If the hive cant find eggs it will turn into a drone layer and die. If the hive is queenless during the winter. Your hive is going to die right away. They know they don’t have a mother to keep them going. They panic and scatter through the hive. Number one hive killer Queens, mites, moisture and high wind. Every hive has nosema. Starvation the second half of winter.

[Jen]

Crazy good thread here Baker 

[Gypsi]

Good thread.  I am not going to venture on whether there was a queen issue but I know bees won't spread out to the outer edges to get food whether on brood or in cluster, if it is too cold they can't.  So cold plus starvation. The brood ideally is in the center of the hive so they can both cluster and cover.

 And that 50 degree drop gets a hive with bees quickly.  One of mine went into our 20's snap with brood and I believe they did ok on covering but they are in a 10 frame deep with the lightly vented sbb and arrangement below.

Instead of a soft and droopy fondant I make a hard sugarbrick type of candy that does have the pH adjusted by cream of tartar, this year I pour in paper plates and position over the opening of the inner cover, plate side up, so moisture from the hive softens the candy a little bit. I use a box (spacer would work) and a telescoping lid with styrofoam inside it so the cold is mainly on the sides of the hive, not the top.

[LindsayBrower1]

Sorry for your loss.. I too have heard about sudden cold snap killing bees... The bees get caught off guard out of cluster and the cold does them in. I just lost a hive a few weeks ago  Found a small handful of dead bees and a virgin queen... It was a late season removal that had a  mated, laying  queen at the last inspection before winterizing my hives... Sad