When do you consider a hive too HOT?

[jayj200]

When do you consider a hive too HOT and should be destroyed?

I just whent to a friends hive thank goodnes I was suited up.
from the outside they seamed normal. weather was fine and still is 4 hours later.
every frame I moved relaesed a new wave of bees
yes I smoked the entrance yes I smoked them with pine needels.
then I smoked myself the torent would subside a little. smoke the box move the frame gently and fifty bees would come batting my vail many times.
Like I said I was fully suited no stings. yea!
we are down in AHB teritory Fl has said all feral hives are AHB.

So guy got this lady my friend some bees, these ones he got the call because they were mean.
did that cutout and put them in her box. was that ethical?
later her tree trimers were attacked and chased out of the yard. they did not like the chainsaw.
later I went and you know the story above.
I told her the are too HOT and should be destroyed.yes or no?
replaced with a package of bees. yes or no?

How is the best way to destroy them? lets not use pesticides inside the box

[tbonekel]

Would you want to maybe try to requeen first?

[jayj200]

AHB's would you keep them?

[Perry]

If they are already in a box (and they were mine) I would requeen with a queen from different stock and then wait (as tbonekel suggested).
If they are someone else's I would advise the same or have them destroyed.

[iddee]

If I could find a mated queen in Jan., I would requeen. If you want to destroy them, go to drugstore and get powdered sulfur. Get your smoker going good and put a tablespoon of sulfur on top the coals. Smoke the hive liberally. All bees will be dead within minutes. The sulfur will dissipate within a couple hours. You can eat the honey, feed it to the next package, whatever you want. There will be NO unwanted residue.

[brooksbeefarm]

I've never been around AHB, but i've read that they are hard to requeen with other breeds of bees, also if your hive supersedes and mates with a AHB drone, the AHB genetics are stronger and you will have a hot hive. If your wanting to kill them, a garden sprayer mixed with water and dish soap sprayed on them will do the trick. I had hot hives like that years ago and waited till after dark and set them afire. Those kind take the fun out of beekeeping and makes everyone around them miserable. Jack

[Perry]

If I could find a mated queen in Jan., I would requeen. If you want to destroy them, go to drugstore and get powdered sulfur. Get your smoker going good and put a tablespoon of sulfur on top the coals. Smoke the hive liberally. All bees will be dead within minutes. The sulfur will dissipate within a couple hours. You can eat the honey, feed it to the next package, whatever you want. There will be NO unwanted residue.

Going to file that one in my noggin! Thanks.

[LogicalBee]

I don’t think it was necessarily “un-ethical” to give your lady friend bees from a cut out.  The guy who did the cutout may have thought the bees were upset from the disruption and could calm down later.

I don’t like warm bees, let alone hot bees.  I would move them out to the swamp someplace (if you want to re-queen) or I would dispatch the bees to bee heaven.

Now I’m wondering how sulfur in a smoker kills bees?  I’m not questioning that it does; just how does it work?  If you heat sulfur in air, you’re probably going to get oxides of sulfur (acid rain).  Does that kill things?  H2S is pretty lethal stuff, but I’m not sure that would be generated in a smoker; you need hydrogen from someplace. 

[iddee]

Years ago northern beeks would kill off all bees in the fall, harvest the honey, then order new bees in the spring. Sulfur in the smoker was the most used method.

[LogicalBee]

Wow, I've learned something new already and I'm only on post #2 

What happens if the bee keeper gets a whiff of the sulfur though 

[Perry]

I've dumped a cup of gas in a hive, but that was one with AFB and was gonna burn anyways. What a mess.

[Jen]

  Liking this thread a lot! It's only a matter of time till AHB move their way to the west coast.

   I do like the idea of re-queening first, wait a couple of weeks or more, and go back in.

    There is a queen rearing company here in California that tauts having queens all year long. if you want me to get the name, give a hollar

[iddee]

In small amounts, no problem for humans. Large amounts can be dangerous.


From wikipedia....

When sulfur burns in air, it produces sulfur dioxide. In water, this gas produces sulfurous acid and sulfites, which are antioxidants that inhibit growth of aerobic bacteria and allow its use as a food additive in small amounts. However, at high concentrations these acids harm the lungs, eyes or other tissues. In organisms without lungs such as insects or plants, it otherwise prevents respiration in high concentrations.

[Slowmodem]

Years ago northern beeks would kill off all bees in the fall, harvest the honey, then order new bees in the spring. Sulfur in the smoker was the most used method.

Did the price back then go up over the winter as much as it has this winter?  The prices they're charging now are outrageous!

[Gypsi]

I have requeened an african hive. It was in 2 boxes.  when I ordered the queen I put a queen excluder between the boxes so I would have less trouble.  I suited up, duct taped any vulnerable points, got that smoker going and wish I'd had a vial of alcohol to put her ladyship in after the hive tool test.  a couple of days later my queen came in, I missed the queen cup between layers of honey and I found my marked California queen beat up on the front porch about a week after I had confirmed she was laying. 

Requeening africans the hardest thing is making sure they don't kill the new queen. The best way is not to kill the Ahb queen til your new one comes in and when you kill her just smear her over the front of the new queen cage.

Which is where my biggest hive came from this spring. Originally they were Beeweaver bees but a couple of generations of self requeening they had gotten just a bit too testy.  Squish smear and switch in late April during a flow, no problem.

[lazy shooter]

@gypsi:

"The best way is not to kill the Ahb queen tip your new one comes in and when you kill her just smear her over the front of the new queen cage."

I have never heard of the above, but is sure sounds like a good tip.  Thanks

[jayj200]

Al says sread them in the sho[ vac?

[riverbee]

jj, another member, cracker, used a garden hose and a bucket of soapy water on an ahb hive. like jack said, " a garden sprayer mixed with water and dish soap sprayed on them will do the trick." also, never tried this, but some beeks have used dry ice set on top the inner cover with a box over top and closed up. sulphur, i went digging around for some of tecumseh's post's on how this is used:

"just a pinch of sulfur incorporated into a 'hand rolled' cigarette which you can then place in a bit of copper pipe and then light and insert this into the front entry after lighting. you pretty much plug up everything else and hopefully trapping all adults inside. When I have done this I typically go in right at sunset when everyone is at home and by sunrise the dirty deed is done."

"make up a hand rolled cigarette, lace the tobacco with a bit of sulfur. I like to insert the 'cigarette' in a loose fitting metal sleeve or copper tube. stick one end of the tube in the hive entrace and plug the cracks. light the cigarette. the fumes are hydrogen sulfide, so don't be taken no puffs . very quick, very cheap and very effective."

"the product that kills the bees is called hydrogen sulfide, and you definitely will get lousy results and a headache if you attempt to put it in a smoker. it is the same by product of natural (food) decomposition that on occasions kills a navy man since it is heavier than air and accumulates at the bottom of the compartments where the food stuffs are stored. since It is heavier than air and disperses easy. the hive will need to be sealed fairly tightly. it can be 'applied' either at the top or bottom of the hive. the last time I applied hydrogen sulfide I did it via a hand rolled cigarette with a bit of sulfur added to the tobacco. if the hive is tightly sealed the results should be 100% after about a 30 minute wait."


if it were cold enough in florida, (which it probably isn't), take the lid off.

[LogicalBee]

Extreme heat or extreme cold will kill anything.  I’m going to assume extreme cold is not an option in south Florida, but it might be possible to create an extreme heat condition and kill them off.  We know package bees will croak if they get too hot.  The same should occur in a hive if it gets too warm.  I would bet wrapping the hive in a heavy duty black garbage bag on a sunny Florida day would do it; without resorting to chemicals.  Are you up for an experiment 

[efmesch]

Hot bees show their tempers best when they are in a populous hive.  Weak hives of hot bees are usually relatively normal in their behavior.   With this in mind,  I would suggest splitting the hive into small parts [Divide and conquer].  Remove the guilty hive so the bees won't have a place to go back to, and use them (after eliminating the queen) to strengthen other hives.  The newspaper method  is easiest for this project.  Once united in small numbers into other hives they should function normally.  As they work out their remaining lives in new hives, they will gradually be replaced.
This suggestion, at this time of year can be used in Florida, but obviously, it is not a practical option up north.  However, in summertime it should be just as practical in the north.