Author Topic: Options on getting bees  (Read 6239 times)

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Offline RLTS

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Options on getting bees
« on: January 12, 2015, 07:13:07 pm »
I have one hive assembled (2 deeps 3 meds) and am in the process of ordering one or two more. to be assembled and in place before end of Feb.
#1 Local (45 miles west) beek is selling 5 frame nucs to be ready in April.
#2 Migratory beek (45 miles east) is advertising complete singles with new queens (deeps I suppose) and 4 frame nucs all to be sold before the hives are moved from his wintering grounds to be taken back North.
I can get the bees from the migratory beek for a lot less (3 singles for the same money as 2of the local beeks nucs)

I am a completely new beek.  Please advise   

Offline Perry

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 07:20:16 pm »
I know it's probably more money, but I would buy local (#1). Just my humble opinion.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 07:28:16 pm »
50-50 on this poll.

I would definitely go with the migratory. Twice the bees at 2/3 the price, with the bonus of picking his brain.
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Offline Riverrat

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 08:31:57 pm »
I have bought splits out of Texas from migratory keeps and had good luck with them.  I would go with the migratory keeps bees.  Keep in mind you will probably have to cull out the frames soon as he is culling frames to make the splits. 
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Offline RLTS

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 08:42:08 pm »
If I did end up going with the full singles I was going to transfer the bees and frames into the new deeps that I have and figure out how to rotate the old frames out over the summer while attempting to grow the hives into two full deeps.  My goal this first year is to still have the bees next year  ;D

Offline riverbee

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 08:48:20 pm »
depends, my vote is with perry, 5 frame nucs from a local..............

either way, some things to consider,  if the beek who is local to you is going to have a laying queen in that 5 frame nuc, i would go for that one.  is the migratory beek  going to make up a nuc and release a queen in the nuc, unrelated to the bees.........?  probably.  ask, and ask them both how their nucs are made up and what you can expect. 
like rat said there may be some culled frames, and could be from either supplier.
 
my preference would be a nuc already to go with a proven laying queen in it.  hope this makes sense?

"figure out how to rotate the old frames out over the summer while attempting to grow the hives into two full deeps"

EDIT AND ADD:
oops forgot to add, let's get you ready for your nucs, when you get them, we can help you with any frames that may need to be cycled out.  ;)
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 09:07:29 pm »

   I prefer local first, but considering where you are "local" does not have the impact of a northern climate and -50 degree winters. TBH, I might get a nuc from the local guy and a couple singles from the migratory fellow, then decide which I like the best over the course of the next year, and replace the queens with eggs from my favorite..   But your goal is to have bees in the spring..    I have to applaud that thinking, your obviously doing some research.
   I do want to mention this...    Culled frames..   If I bought singles or nucs with frames that were looking rough. I would probably NOT cull them, DEPENDING on how rough they are. If they are just Black, but are more or less full frames I would leave them in for now. Get that hive built up with new comb above the old combs..   Come spring, when the bees are in the top, rotate the boxes and THEN start to cull those frames. JMO, some of those fellers that reside in Texas can probably kick in a more relevant answer!
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 08:07:30 am »
  Keep in mind you will probably have to cull out the frames soon as he is culling frames to make the splits.

Riverrat, rivebee or LazyBkpr:  What is culling?  Is that rotate out old frames?  I thought bees like to lay eggs in new comb, but like to store honey in old.  Could those old frames be moved to the outside later for honey storage and let the bees draw comb (during a flow) on new frames in the middle?  or do you anticipate them being black and hard as a rock?

Offline Perry

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 08:24:28 am »
Actually Bakersdozen, it's the other way around. Queens like to lay in old dark comb. One of the things that folks who sell bees often do is cycle out their oldest comb with the bees they sell. After a few years though, virtually all of their comb should be no more than a few years old.
Don't forget that when you buy a nuc for instance, it comes with a certain number (4 or 5) frames of drawn comb about which you know very little. If it is smuggly looking stuff I would advise to cycle it out at your earliest convenience.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 08:36:12 am »
Culling is taking out the bad and leaving the good. Doesn't matter what it is, nor what is wrong with it. Culling is keeping only the cream of the crop.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline RLTS

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 06:42:10 pm »
After all of that, the Migratory keep is already sold out  someone must have bought the whole yard.
 
Thanks anyway for the opinions and the education on the subject. 

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2015, 08:37:23 pm »
Were Great with opinions and fair with education :)
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2015, 09:23:38 pm »
rl, can you still get nucs from the local beek you mentioned?
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Offline RLTS

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2015, 12:15:25 am »
Yes I still have options  - the local with nucs or R Weaver about 1.5 hours drive to the south for nucs or packages

Offline riverbee

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2015, 01:05:40 am »
that's great rl!  don't wait too long to order though!
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Options on getting bees
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2015, 12:21:10 pm »
Actually Bakersdozen, it's the other way around. Queens like to lay in old dark comb. One of the things that folks who sell bees often do is cycle out their oldest comb with the bees they sell. After a few years though, virtually all of their comb should be no more than a few years old.
Don't forget that when you buy a nuc for instance, it comes with a certain number (4 or 5) frames of drawn comb about which you know very little. If it is smuggly looking stuff I would advise to cycle it out at your earliest convenience.

Perry,
It some time for me to find where I read about old comb vs new comb preferences with bees.  This is what I based my statement on regarding the bees preference to storing honey in old comb and the queen laying eggs in the new comb.  Beekeeping Tips and Topics by Elbert R Jaycox, pg. 77.  The chapter is entitled Preference of Honey Bees For New And Old Comb.
Jaycox refers to a previously published article he wrote for Bees and Honey magazine.  " As noted in the article, Dr. John Free found that colonies did not prefer old combs for brood rearing and sometimes reared less brood in old comb... However, bees prefer to store honey in used comb..."  Jaycox goes on to cite another researcher, Annie Betts.  He concludes, "... bees like to put honey in old combs.  They may also begin to rear brood in old combs early in the season simply because that is where the honey is available from the previous year.   Miss Betts noted that bees in the wild build new comb each year and establish their nest in it.  They then store their honey in the old, used comb." 

Jaycox does state that old black comb, so dark that you can't see daylight through it, should be replaced.  He concludes that the cell diameter is greatly reduced from all the cocoons attached to the cell walls.

This book was published in 1982 and I will agree, some of the information is outdated.  Is this theory outdated?  This book was also recommended by Randy Oliver, so that should give it street cred, right?