Author Topic: Fumagillin (Read 18552 times)

LindsayBrower1 · « **on:** February 12, 2015, 07:08:48 am »

How would you suggest administering Fumagillin to a few hives in the dead of winter? I got a suggestion to try to put it into candy bricks but I'm worried that the heat of the candy process might make the Fumagillin ineffective. Any good advice out there?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:18:43 am »

No boiling etc, just warm water from the tap. Only need a small amount of water too, just enough to make the sugar moist and form it into cakes, then set it out to dry and make it bricks.
I also have NO IDEA if using this method will make any difference. I am going to try it JUST because I know of no other alternative, so watching this post to see how everyone else might do it.

riverbee · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2015, 11:19:37 am »

according to medivet's instructions, heat damages the fumagillin:

"Do not incorporate Fumagilin-B into hot sugar syrup. Heat will damage fumagillin"

pdf here:
Fumagilin-B and Nosema in Bees

not sure about the candy brick, think i would be tempted to try it in a pollen patty, or winter patty? i went to randy olivers website on this, a couple links lindsay:

The “Nosema Twins” – Part 4 Treatment

Field Trial of Several Nosema Treatments

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2015, 01:30:07 pm »

Jeez... According to Medivet, Heat WILL NOT harm your syrup... Heat from normal tap water... NOT heat from boiling syrup... but I do not know the dividing line. I will see if I can EMail them again.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2015, 01:52:35 pm »

OK.. It is recommended that you do not heat above 50 degrees C

so thats about 123 degrees F? I think my tap water is a bit warmer than that.. I'll have to check...

LindsayBrower1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2015, 02:40:51 pm »

Scott what about kneading it into some fondont? Maybe eliminating the water would be a better option? I don't know

Jen · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2015, 02:50:19 pm »

This is a good thread! And Lindsay, I applaud your willingness to experiment.. that's how we learn, and ya never know, you might just come up with something that works, and the rest of us haven't thought of before

LindsayBrower1 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2015, 03:04:07 pm »

It wasn't really my idea but thank you Jen

I didn't think putting syrup or drenching was at all an option for me but then heard a pollen patty might be a good idea. I thought that was a good idea as well. I discussed it with another beek who's opinion that the added protein from the protein patty would make things worse. I've heard mix reviews on it... I have just been reading a bunch of different articles and talking to a few different people.

Perry · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2015, 03:30:07 pm »

Quote from: LindsayBrower1 on February 12, 2015, 02:40:51 pm

Scott what about kneading it into some fondont? Maybe eliminating the water would be a better option? I don't know

Lindsay, I would say at this point there would certainly be no harm done by trying, as long as it's not super cold out.

camero7 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2015, 03:50:05 pm »

I don't know why anyone would put such a serious medication in their hives. This stuff causes deformity in children, is banned in most countries and the effectiveness of it in dealing with creanae is poor at best. It can contaminate honey and one of my selling points is that I do not use stuff like this in my hives. Gets me a premium price.

Perry · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2015, 04:48:18 pm »

What do you use to battle Nosema (Apis or Ceranae)? Have you taken a survivor approach?

LindsayBrower1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:05:27 pm »

I about to loose all of my hives if I don't do something so this is a last ditch effort. I don't know what else to do. My other thread is posted as "dead hive" that explains my situation.

Perry · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:18:33 pm »

Go for it (mixed in fondant). I don't like treating unless I have to, but if it boils down to lose them or treat them, I treat.
If no fondant, I would even try mixing some fumagillan with icing sugar and sprinkle some either on the ends of your top bars or even onto the cluster.

LindsayBrower1 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:24:07 pm »

I picked up fondant today Perry

going to try like heck... Your exactly right, the way they look, it's do or die at this point.

Perry · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:28:22 pm »

There may be those that will disagree with me Lindsay, but that's OK, I understand that. I'm just trying to keep you in the game.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:31:04 pm »

I would proceed as already outlined. You could use ICE COLD water to mix the fumagilin into before mixing it with the sugar, the warm water just accepts the fumigilin better, and mixes into the sugar nicer..

camero7
"I don't know why anyone would put such a serious medication in their hives."

What difference does it make if its the only chance they have left? So, is it better to let them die so you can say you didnt use that medication?
Last time I checked, Winter in NY is not typically the time when supers are on the hive, so I doubt there will be any contamination of the honey?

I really try to understand where everyone is coming from, but I am having a little difficulty here. If your pride is centered around telling people you dont use Fumagilin.. Great!!! But dont come down on the folks who prefer to save their bees. Or.. you have a better remedy?

riverbee · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2015, 08:53:07 pm »

lindsay, i tend to agree with what tefer said on your other thread "Dead Hive" but also, please read my last comment.

in part from tefer:

"Getting the bees to consume the treatment is going to be your problem this time of year.
Most use some sort of drench, the bees clean each other ingesting the treated syrup.
Sick bees normally don't eat a whole lot, that's the reason you dump it on them.
It is to cold to dump wet liquid on the cluster for you.
I don't know the success rate for treating after the fact, but I assume that it's very low.
I would just let nature take it's course and see if some make it through.
Plan on replacing those frames and cleaning up the hive components."

if one reads through oliver's research and writings to understand how fumagillin works and applications required and how nosema affects the bees, oliver does say this (to what tefer said):

"4. Depopulation and Collapse–Finally, the bees “lose ventricular function” (they can no longer digest food), stop eating (and stop taking medicated syrup, or pollen supplement), and simply starve to death in the midst of plenty. Most adults die far from the hive, leaving only a handful of young bees and the queen.

Colonies can collapse either during summer or winter, but the character of the infection differs. During cold season collapse, most bees are infected, and spore counts exceed 10 million spores per bee. Contrarily, under warm season breakdown, less than half the bees are infected, and spore counts are generally much lower. Forager bees just die in the field, and the colony shows no symptoms other than dwindling away."

with the above said, i see no harm in trying it in fondant, given your situation, and would probably be willing to try for myself to see the end result.
good luck and best wishes. keep us posted. it's hard losing hives. for myself, for the times i suspected the bees died of nosema, there were plenty of honey stores. from my own experience and to what tefer has said from his experience and what i quoted from oliver, sick bees don't eat. this makes sense, when we are sick, we don't eat very well either. anyway, i hope this is not the case for you. it's worth a try. that's how we learn

LindsayBrower1 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2015, 09:10:58 pm »

Thank you guys! My findings on the dead hive are this... A lot of bees, no marked queen that was there in fall, a few torn up queen cells ( I actually pulled a " casting" out of one or whatever that would be called), plenty of available food but a lot of bees that were dead in the cells! I read an article online that stated this about nosema Apis "If the queen is infected, her ovaries degenerate and egg production drops due to atrophy of the oocytes, after which she is likely to be superseded."
I'm anxious to see what they say after looking at my bee samples under the microscope.

riverbee · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2015, 09:27:35 pm »

lindsay, will be looking forward to your post on your findings under the microscope!

Jen · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2015, 10:01:18 pm »

Lindsay- "A lot of bees

This is exciting news, it means there is still a chance. I'm on your page girl!