Author Topic: question to the first or second year bee keeper... (Read 21041 times)

Papakeith · « **Reply #40 on:** February 16, 2015, 09:08:33 am »

Quote from: iddee on February 16, 2015, 08:23:11 am

That's why I hesitated to post it. I felt like you are too proficient to have each little detail pointed out, ...

LOL, and therein lies my problem

Quote from: Papakeith

Apparently I seem like I know what I am doing (I don't)

DMLinton · « **Reply #41 on:** February 16, 2015, 09:40:18 am »

Quote from: riverbee on February 15, 2015, 10:12:38 pm

debated professionally or not....off topic. took away from and takes away from tec's original question.

For the record, I am with riverbee.

iddee · « **Reply #42 on:** February 16, 2015, 09:44:49 am »

Me too, DM. That's why she's here. To "TRY" and keep me in line.

efmesch · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2015, 10:12:32 am »

Papakeith says....What I was lamenting was the difficulty in getting people out to take a look at my hives. Another set of experienced eyes to look and tell me that I'm doing the best I can or suggest to me ways to improve.

That's a great point PPK. It reminds me of way back when---how badly I wanted someone who knew, to say someting about what I was doing--properly or improperly. How much one can learn from that.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #44 on:** February 16, 2015, 10:21:41 am »

Quote from: tecumseh on February 14, 2015, 06:33:52 pm

On a different thread I ask the 'old hands' about how to simplify the instruction and or teaching of beekeeping. So to take a different view of this question to those a bit new to beekeeping what aspect of your early education into beekeeping made things easier to understand and/or what made it seem more confusing. again any input from beekeeper old or new is appreciated.

ET Ash

I have reread tec's original post several times in an effort to understand exactly what he was asking. I think we are missing tec's point. I am with DMLinton and riverbee on this. I think Jack understood the question. I attempted to answer it as well.

I don't care about "spirited" arguments when people have not drifted off the subject. I think the North and South war has already been fought. Some of this goes back to what I have said a couple of times on this forum. Not all rules pertain to everyone. Beekeeping is geographical. The bees have figured that out, why can't we?

Hopefully, when tec is up to it, we can hear what his original thoughts were.

As for wishing someone could come and inspect a hive with you...that would be awesome. Unfortunately, some on this forum don't have another beekeeper near them. It's a lot to ask someone to give their time and gas to help. Possibly, reversing the situation and offering to help someone with their hives is the next best thing? I had my share of failures to learn from in the beginning. Still making them too!

lazy shooter · « **Reply #45 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:00:17 am »

I have heard Tec speak. He broke his lecture down into plain speak for those of us that are life science scholars. So much of beekeeping is wrapped in tough biological terms that it is often times discouraging to others. I am an accomplished engineer, but life science is not my thing, and i don't want to learn a biological dictionary, I just want someone to help me with beekeeping. That is Tec's strong point, and that is what he is trying to convey to each of us, regardless of our skill level.

Papakeith · « **Reply #46 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:06:05 am »

Quote

So to take a different view of this question to those a bit new to beekeeping what aspect of your early education into beekeeping made things easier to understand and/or what made it seem more confusing.

What made it easier? Forums and books. I can be a fly on the wall on forums and gather lots of information. Not always useful information, so I had to develop a filter to separate the wheat from the chaff. Beekeeping meetings come in third on the list. Only because the information isn't always presented in a digestible manner. But, there are souls there that are/were just as confused as I was. We took comfort in one another's lostedness $:-\$

tecumseh · « **Reply #47 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:27:22 am »

a lazyshooter snip...
I just want someone to help me with beekeeping.

tecumseh...
thanks for that LazyShooter... nice restatement of my intentions here. Please don't let this post end the conversation and I will assure ALL that I can navigate around poor spelling and writing skills and come to some understanding of the larger idea you were trying to convey < much like beekeeping some practice at teaching at almost any level will train you to dig the meaning out of folks writing and imho poor writing or spelling skills doesn't necessarily mean a person doesn't have some keen insight into what is at the very heart of a problem. Casually in reading some of the prior post I think I am beginning to see the larger problem and also how 'learning style' (much like geography in beekeeping practice) may be a major variable in what work or doesn't work for the beginning beekeeper.

Again keep up the comments....

Ray · « **Reply #48 on:** February 16, 2015, 01:39:40 pm »

Well, tec.
Can we expect a book soon?
Seriously, I'd buy one.

tecumseh · « **Reply #49 on:** February 16, 2015, 05:28:39 pm »

I certainly hope not Ray. Perhaps I don't have enough misplaced ego to go there.... basically I look around at all the books written about beekeeping and pretty much know any addition will likely not make a new beekeeper's path any easier. What I am really trying to do here is generate ideas for the educational component of the ABF.... at the most recent meeting in California I signed up to participate in this committee. The fellow who is chair of the committee has lined out his thought on this and I am simply trying to do a bit of research and see what folks experience may be. For example..... almost from the get go several folks here mentioned mentors and I suspect these are folks that learn by watching how others do things and then when they have some confidence to go down their own path.... then there is Mr Linton who I suspect is a more symbolic learner quite capable of blazing a path for himself thru the forest after he has read and digested a bit of information (from whatever source). There are I am guessing other learning styles and I think I would be missing something if I though everyone came to some level of confidence in beekeeping all in the same way. The larger idea is to build some learning programs that increase retention and reduces the quantity of incorrect information < as many teachers know correcting an incorrect idea is often 10 X as hard as teaching the idea properly in the first place.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #50 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:34:08 pm »

The larger idea is to build some learning programs that increase retention and reduces the quantity of incorrect information < as many teachers know correcting an incorrect idea is often 10 X as hard as teaching the idea properly in the first place.

When I actually ended up with my own bees, and eventually bees from my mentors hives, I was VERY frustrated, trying to figure out what it was I was doing. I KNEW the motions, I knew what to do when, but had no idea WHY I was doing those things, and looking stuff up, nothing matched.
I understand now what the issue was... as Lee so eloquently put it, most of what I saw, and heard was from the minority veiwpoint. People trying to keep bees "Naturally" or treatment free, or organically, etc, etc... Had I not already known a method, and knew what I was looking for to a certain extent, I may well have gone down one of those paths.. This is the reason I started my website, and why I am interested in helping people get started. Once I began to put the pieces together it all started to make sense.. For me, the key was finding information related to "Standard" practices. The things you do to keep your bees alive when you are NOT worried about being organic, or natural, or treatment free..

Lburou · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2015, 11:42:28 pm »

Lazy Shooter has put his finger on an important point for new beekeepers: Bee Jargon (or Bee Vocabulary).

Each time I've begun the journey for a new vocation, qualification, or hobby, the first hurdle is the new vocabulary. Vocabularies specific to a specialized interest becomes a jargon, understood only within members of that community. The kernel points of bee keeping can be introduced with, lets say, 50 terms of bee jargon. Then, there is intermediate and advanced jargon. I've been preparing some slides on "Bee Jargon" for my Club. Something we can do for a few minutes each meeting. Its a good way to stimulate discussions and interest for independent study and provide the basis for better communication all around when the subject of bees and beekeeping comes up. HTH

barry42001 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 17, 2015, 02:16:07 am »

At the end of the day what you have to hope for if you cannot get a mentor to assist you is to read as much as you can match what you have read with what you see I know this is tedious, that is how I have learned to do what I have practice, will also learn from mistakes when you do them. While I do want honey from the hives I have, more important for the bees to be healthy. If they aren't healthy, you won't make either bees or honey. Again I read everything I could lay my hands on and compared what I read with what I was looking at.

tecumseh · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2015, 06:20:06 am »

perhaps at some time in the not so distant future Lee you might share his jargon list with me??? that is certainly one major hurdle to a new beekeeper's understanding and a list would be very helpful.

and thanks for pointing out your own experience LazyBkp certainly in this day of the internet and everyone (regardless of experience) sharing methods it can get very confusing as to what is or is not standard acceptable practice and of course know why you do these things make the entire process much more understandable. imho there is also a lot of 'well accepted ideas' that are not well accepted at all.

Barry points out mistakes and these are quite often at the bee lab represent the largest opportunity for a student to really learn something. Sadly these are always quite random so plugging this into some learning program would be extremely difficult < since my accident I have been incapable of lifting anything heavier than 15 # so our bee club has lined up a day with the apprentices to join me one day in looking into about 60 hives at two location and I suspect this will yield several learning opportunities for exactly this reason.

lazy shooter · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2015, 08:32:21 am »

@tec and lborou:

Per example:

I read about haploids and diploids and when look these terms up in the dictionary the definitions are even confusing because I have almost zero life science education. Two sets of genes and chromosomes does not tweak me up as I have never studies genetics. All I needed to know was that all the drones from a queen are like all the drones and that the drones contributes one-half of the genetic make up of the queens off springs, and when the queens mating flight is over she carries the spermatozoa of a dozen or so drones. In brief, she will lay eggs that get one-half of their genetic make up from a dozen different drones, some of which may be full brothers.

I don't want to know about genetics, I want to know who is fathering my future bee children.

Ray · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2015, 09:27:14 am »

Sliding a little farther off topic:
I wish there was some advanced beekeeping books, written in plain english.
Similar to Tom Seeley's book - Honeybee Democracy.
The 'Essential' series are good also.

I think that is why I rely so much on Micheal Bush's - The Practical Beekeeper
(note: I have and have read 17 BK books and they all are lacking)

lazy shooter · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2015, 01:35:19 pm »

I write a lot of reports for state and federal agencies. My first boss, who was the best practical engineer that I have ever met, always told us to write technical papers that a high school graduate could read. That is what I have striven to accomplish all of my professional career. I need some expert beekeepers to do the same thing. And, don't tell me it can't be done.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2015, 05:08:11 pm »

Lazy, Finding a expert beekeeper would be the first problem.

Jack

Newbee · « **Reply #58 on:** February 26, 2015, 09:49:45 am »

This is my first year looking into things seriously. I have not acquired anything yet, still in the researching stages…

1- Recommended reading list. I've gotten a few books from my local library that have been helpful, but were recommended to me via another source. Even having a synopsis and/or difficulty level (advanced reading vs. beginner rankings, etc.) from forum members would be helpful narrowing down the choices.

2- Some basic overview of the whole concept (box + frames = hive, broods vs. supers, overview of season, etc.). This could be a video, webpage w/ pics, etc. Believe it or not, it was reading some detailed plans/discussion on how to make your own hive's over on LazyBkpr's sight, when about 9-10 different things finally just 'clicked' in my head. Until then I was acquiring info w/o being able to really put it together in my head? Seeing/touching some hive boxes and frames @ the local club meeting also helped greatly. You could explain it all in about 2-3 minutes of video using empty/new hive-boxes and frames. Maybe an empty frame w/ last-year's comb to show what happens. Here's your brood, add your supers, sandwich this board between here to do this, this board at the top to do that, put a cover on it, you're done. Make a 2-minute video of that and you'll jump-start a lot of understanding.

3 - Contact information repository for local/regional clubs, or individuals, who would be willing to talk to, meet, or help mentor new beekeepers. I was able to find a local club through google, but maybe there's someone who likes helping folks, but isn't part of the local club (or isn't one in the area)? Maybe there's a regional group I'm not aware of? Having a list of friendly-contacts may facilitate conversations, meetings, and sharing of information and resources?

- K

Ray4852 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 26, 2015, 11:53:26 am »

Quote from: Newbee on February 26, 2015, 09:49:45 am

This is my first year looking into things seriously. I have not acquired anything yet, still in the researching stages…

1- Recommended reading list. I've gotten a few books from my local library that have been helpful, but were recommended to me via another source. Even having a synopsis and/or difficulty level (advanced reading vs. beginner rankings, etc.) from forum members would be helpful narrowing down the choices.

2- Some basic overview of the whole concept (box + frames = hive, broods vs. supers, overview of season, etc.). This could be a video, webpage w/ pics, etc. Believe it or not, it was reading some detailed plans/discussion on how to make your own hive's over on LazyBkpr's sight, when about 9-10 different things finally just 'clicked' in my head. Until then I was acquiring info w/o being able to really put it together in my head? Seeing/touching some hive boxes and frames @ the local club meeting also helped greatly. You could explain it all in about 2-3 minutes of video using empty/new hive-boxes and frames. Maybe an empty frame w/ last-year's comb to show what happens. Here's your brood, add your supers, sandwich this board between here to do this, this board at the top to do that, put a cover on it, you're done. Make a 2-minute video of that and you'll jump-start a lot of understanding.

3 - Contact information repository for local/regional clubs, or individuals, who would be willing to talk to, meet, or help mentor new beekeepers. I was able to find a local club through google, but maybe there's someone who likes helping folks, but isn't part of the local club (or isn't one in the area)? Maybe there's a regional group I'm not aware of? Having a list of friendly-contacts may facilitate conversations, meetings, and sharing of information and resources?

- K

pm me if you need any help