Author Topic: Is it time to sell the extractors?  (Read 17715 times)

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Offline Perry

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2015, 04:10:23 pm »
I guess I am really starting to feel my age, but I yearn for the simpler things in life. While this may ease things for the harvesting of honey for some of those willing to go this route, I would be happy if we could just find a way to help us keep our bees healthier. I don't need a car that can drive itself, I would be happy with one I could count on to start and go when I want to use it.
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Offline efmesch

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2015, 04:22:28 pm »
As usual, Apis gets straight to the heart of the matter---cost effectiveness and hive management.  As usual, his analysis is right on.
IMHO, cost management will be of secondary importance to the hobbyists.  They will be willing to buy this innovation "at almost any price" because of its convenience, its novelty or just for the fun of it.  For those who have 2-10 hives and have no intention of getting more, bees aren't really there for the money but for the fun, the ideals, etc. The expense will be of little importance.  Some might even take up the challenge of building them themselves. 
The commercial bekeeper will, however, look at his pocket and make the calculations as Apis suggests..

However, successful hive management is of concern to big and small alike.  Swarm prevention will not be the only issue.  Northern beekeepers who have to develop and maintain winter stores of honey/syrup for their bees will have to work out a new way of managing the bees so as to guarantee the successful overwintering of their hives.   Syrup can't be stored in the Flow frames, out of concern for keeping their honey as true honey.  Honey that crystalizes in the cells over the winter would be a tragedy.  As I see it, that means you would have to be able to remove and store the Flow frames during the winter, while another set of frames is filled up in the supers for the winter.    The timing of when to replace the frames will require extra attention to the hives. 
Another consideration which will put a crimp into "standard" management techniques will be the unsuitability of moving Flow frames down into the brood nest, lest they get plugged up with pollen.  The flexibility of transferring frames from upper to lower supers or to the brood box is something greatly appreciated by those who work with deep boxes only.   Those who mix deeps, mediums and shallows often express regret over their inability to move frames up and down to solve assorted challenges of management.
Flow frames, being (as claimed) too deep for the queen to lay in, can't be counted on to help build up a hive in a pinch.  It would also seem to me that getting the bees to build these extended cells will be a challenge that demands precise management during heavy nectar flows, something that not all of us are blessed with or up to handeling.

Bottom line:  As I see it now, I think that Flow frames will be a curiosity with a short life span.  People will buy them, try them and retire them.  Some keeps might stick with them for their novelty value, but until proven wrong, I think I'll be skeptical about their leading a revolution.
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2015, 11:02:49 pm »
I wish the developers all the success in the world.  That said, after a couple days to think about it, Efmesh may be correct in his assessments.  After an initial frenzy, this system could be sold by the train carload to neophyte beekeepers and then sold off when their bees die.  I'd really like to be wrong about this and hope the flow hives take over the industry.  :)

In high school, I used to sell salesman's courses to sales people.  One of the things I learned was the fact that you can't sell a person something when they are happy with what they already have......Well, you get where I'm coming from, don't you?  :)
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2015, 03:13:45 am »
Looks neat.  I really doubt that it would work locally.  Due to low humidity and nectar sources our honey is very viscous and will not flow out of the cells.    I've tried to uncapp and drain a few frames and almost no honey drips out even after a couple of days.
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline Jacobs

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2015, 08:39:00 am »
I don't know that this will be the revolution in honey production that extractors were in the 1870's, but it will be entertaining to see what develops.

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2015, 10:45:23 am »
circling vultures known as robbing ahb hives would have a field day with this

Offline ledifni

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2015, 08:42:16 pm »
I can honestly say this blew my mind (and I usually hate that phrase considering people use it for the most trivial crap).  Wow.  Genius idea.  I hope it works out.  It's too bad they aren't selling them yet, but I know it takes time to develop a new idea.

Offline LogicalBee

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2015, 01:16:14 am »
This is one of those ideas where we collectively knock our heads and say 'why didn't I think of that'!  Kudos to the Australian inventors  :eusa_dance:

First time I've heard about this thing.  Just getting caught up on bee news now due to the weather being too cold to do anything else. :sad:

I'm sure if they've been developing this thing for 6 years, they've solved a lot of bugs along the way.  A couple of things I would wonder about is why would the bees uncap the cells after they were drained?  That would seem a little unexpected to me.  The other thing that would seem problematic to me is sliding the frame halfs apart to let the honey flow.  Between burr comb, propolis, and just plain friction, that would seem like a real engineering challenge.

I hope it's a big success.   

Offline GLOCK

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2015, 08:20:43 am »
i still say it's just another piece of bee junk to stick in the shed . time will tell.
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Offline Papakeith

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2015, 10:09:58 am »
so they are "selling" their product now.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flow-hive-honey-on-tap-directly-from-your-beehive

Anyone gonna buy and try?
I'm starting to think that the bees are keeping me...

Offline tbonekel

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2015, 10:12:03 am »
Nope! In fact, I'm getting tired of hearing about it. It's all over facebook!

Offline barry42001

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2015, 10:17:41 am »
350 usd for flow frames for 8 frame deep, another 50 usd for complete 10 frame lang. This doesn't include the " flow"  super or box which is another 60 usd.  And for that your outfitted for one.
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2015, 10:29:00 am »
too rich for my blood.  i'll stick with extracting i guess... besides, i can always use the wax  :yes:
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Offline kebee

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2015, 10:32:55 am »
 I saw the sale page and I am going to pass up this one my self, beside I just bought a extractor last year and got to get my money worth out of it.
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2015, 10:51:21 am »
Shipping has got to be through the roof!  Imagine what you pay for supplies to be delivered for bee equipment here in the lower 48?  Now think about those costs on a package coming from Australia! 

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2015, 11:08:02 am »
Yes, a bit expensive at this point, and my concern is not that it works, it would be springtime inspections..  In order to check and see that the bees are not preparing for swarming every nine days.... during a flow....  When these things would be ON the hive and being filled...  I cant imagine how much they weigh..   basic wooden frames with was or plastic foundation weigh in at near or just over 100 pounds, these would have to weigh slightly more..  I could no longer manage my hives and keep them limited to 1 or less swarms per year if I used the flow hive.  if they make these in mediums, like a normal super, I might try one..  but I would likely buy a used one or three to test. If they tested well....  I would not be against making up buckets with holes in the lids..
   Walk along the outyards with several buckets, pop the hoses in, turn the valves and....    Hrm.. take up smoking again?
   IF.. made in mediums, two of them per hive for the heavy flow season...  at just 300 dollars each would be $15000.00...   thats Fifteen thousand dollars.. thats only about six thousand five hundred and twenty one pounds of honey sold at bulk prices.....

   i think this is a REALLY good idea. I like it a lot, and hopefully end up with one of those hives to set up right here by the house, but i just cant see it taking over the commercial side. Too expensive right now, I just dont have 15 grand to spend on something I already have figured out, and not practical in deeps.
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Offline barry42001

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2015, 12:45:40 pm »
Well lazy you got to understand, and every single one of the videos that illustrate how to use it they have the flow hive, set up where you would normally have a second brood chamber as a rule well my rule since I use all  deeps anyway the only issue I have is they have it illustrate it like I said in what would normally be a brood chamber instead of a honey super. As a honey super I would have no issues with it at all because you're not really taking it off you just letting the bees refill it the only time you would need to take it off is to check the brood chamber and it would be one time of year in the early spring to prevent swarming just my convoluted thoughts. With that said $400 per set up is kind of steep in my mind. :-)
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2015, 12:59:32 pm »
.....With that said $400 per set up is kind of steep in my mind. :-)
Much too steep.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2015, 01:44:09 pm »
Call me sentimental, but there's just something about doing it the way we do now that attracts me. We "handle" the frames, uncap them, load them into an extractor, unload them, etc.
I have to admit that some of the new equipment is very efficient, I'm thinking of those Cowan line ups that one person can operate on their own doing hundreds of boxes in a shift. But then I look back to Ulee's Gold, and the "romantic" way things were done, and it seems as though with this inexorable march to modernization, something special gets lost.
I'm not changing anything, I'm just real happy to be playing in this game the way it is.
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Offline LogicalBee

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Re: Is it time to sell the extractors?
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2015, 03:38:07 pm »
I still think the idea is ingenious, but alas it seems like selling a new invention in bee keeping is about as hard as selling rocks to a quarry. :'(

It’s not like the phone business, or computer business where everybody wants, and are willing to pay, for the newest ideas.  I must be a bee keeper at heart because I would never pay $600 for a particular smart phone.  But evidently the rest of the world tends to think differently!  Maybe the inventive bee keeper types should go work for Apple, Google, and Tesla ?

I still hope this thing is a success for the Aussie inventors.  :eusa_clap: