oxalic acid crystals

[pistolpete]

The instructions call for oxalic acid dihydrate, my pharmacy has oxalic acid crystals.  Are they the same thing?   

[DMLinton]

While I cannot speak authoritatively in regards to bee treatment, the only difference between oxalic acid dihydrate and oxalic acid would be that the former has two water molecules stuck to it.  I would expect the water molecules to dissociate when the product is vapourized so that they would not be part of the treatment product.  Obviously, if a recommended dose of oxalic acid  dihydrate is recommended, but oxalic acid substituted, then the oxalic acid dose would be smaller.

Make sure that the oxalic acid is truly oxalic acid and not oxalic acid dihydate.  Most chemicals that are available as a hydrate is because the hydrated is either the only stable form or the most stable form.  We have gotten into the habit of playing very fast and loose with terminology although I suspect that oxalic acid crystals should be pure oxalic acid.

A quick check of oxalic dosing recommendations indicates that both oxalic acid dihydrate and pure oxalic acid are used.  Very strangely, the recommended dosings appear to be the same for both products yet the oxalic acid dihydrate would, effectively, be a diluted version of pure oxalic acid.  Oxalic acid dihydrate would have 90/126 the amount of active ingredient as pure oxalic acid would.

[Jen]

Hey Pete, maybe this will help as well ~ I like anything Randy Oliver

   http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

[Barbarian]

I have used oxalic acid dihydrate for several years to make up trickle solution for the local bee club. Works OK.

The dihydrate seems to be more available than the anhydrous. I would expect the anhydrous to be much more expensive. The last (cheap) dihydrate supply I got was via the internet from a yachting chandler.

I suspect that a lot of references to oxalic acid in the bee world are for oxalic acid dihydrate.

[Ray4852]

 Its all the same. My oxalic acid is 99 percent pure oxalic acid crystals. You cant get it any better. 

 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xoxalic+acid.TRS0&_nkw=oxalic+acid&_sacat=0

[Jen]

And I get mine off of Amazon Prime

[DMLinton]

Its all the same. My oxalic acid is 99 percent pure oxalic acid crystals. You cant get it any better. 

Oxalic Acid Dihydrate and Oxalic Acid Crystals are not the same thing.  Same active ingredient but the former is a little less than 3/4 the strength of the latter.

[DMLinton]

I have done a bit of poking around today to try and figure out just what it is that beekeepers are talking about when they say "oxalic acid" and now feel compelled to offer some clarification. 

As I have pointed out previously, oxalic acid dihydrate and oxalic acid are not the same thing.  At least not from the point of view of a Chemical Engineer.  However, to beekeepers, oxalic acid dihydrate, oxalic acid and oxalic acid crystals are all the same thing .... specifically, oxalic acid dihydrate (or hydrated oxalic acid).

As Randy Oliver points out, "oxalic acid" is 71.4% oxalic acid and, for vapourization, the recommended dose is 1 gram/10 frame deep brood box. In other words, the recommended dose of pure oxalic acid is 0.71 g/ 10 frame deep brood box. 

Even when pure (anhydrous) oxalic acid could be obtained, it would be oxalic acid dihydrate before it could be measured and applied due to highly hydrophilic nature of pure (anhydrous) oxalic acid.

[pistolpete]

thanks for all the responses.

[Gypsi]

My vote for the most useful post on the site today:  Gave me the dosage, my big hive needed treated. Little one will be ok until time for a 2nd on the big one, a bunch of merged nucs with a large brood break.  Thank you thank you thank you. 

I have done a bit of poking around today to try and figure out just what it is that beekeepers are talking about when they say "oxalic acid" and now feel compelled to offer some clarification. 

As I have pointed out previously, oxalic acid dihydrate and oxalic acid are not the same thing.  At least not from the point of view of a Chemical Engineer.  However, to beekeepers, oxalic acid dihydrate, oxalic acid and oxalic acid crystals are all the same thing .... specifically, oxalic acid dihydrate (or hydrated oxalic acid).

As Randy Oliver points out, "oxalic acid" is 71.4% oxalic acid and, for vapourization, the recommended dose is 1 gram/10 frame deep brood box. In other words, the recommended dose of pure oxalic acid is 0.71 g/ 10 frame deep brood box. 

Even when pure (anhydrous) oxalic acid could be obtained, it would be oxalic acid dihydrate before it could be measured and applied due to highly hydrophilic nature of pure (anhydrous) oxalic acid.