Confused

[Finally Home]

I've got 5 hives in NW Ind.  Been normal to below average temps so far.  Yesterday and today been between 45 & 55 with today being the warmest.  Bee's came out for a little while yesterday and for quite a while today.  All but one hive??  The other four hives have had dead bees out on the porch.  Not alot that would alarm me.  Zero on the one that has no activity.  Being warm enough I popped the top cover for a quick second and the bees are all clustered in the top box?? Seem to be moving around.
Being a new keeper I thought I had read that they work the bottom box first then work up?  Not sure if its about time for them to be hitting the top box yet or not. Do some just run the cycle backwards and start in the top?
Running double deeps.  Any thoughts???

[Slowmodem]

Have you tried to weigh (lift) the hive?  Is it heavy?  Compare it to the other hives.  You may need to add sugar or fondant to feed them.

[Perry]

Ditto on what Slow said. I've had colonies that just like it at the top. The problem is their food is below them or to one side. They can get caught out in a cold snap. I put fondant right over the cluster to allow them to move side to side to bridge any gap that may occur.

[G3farms]

excellent advice on the weight of the hives. If light a little feed will go a long way to helping them out.

[Finally Home]

Well I just checked all of them and they all still feel like they have some weight to them.  All about the same. 

[Zookeep]

that hives gonna have trouble if its at the top this early in the winter, I would get fondant or candy board on it right away cause they will not work there way down for food, a hive can starve to death with food 6 inches or less away in the cold.

[Finally Home]

Temps hit 55 today.  Going down to the 30's and below for a while. 
Should I smoke in the top to push em down a little to keep the cold off of them and then slip it in real quick?? 
What would cause them to eat so much so fast.  Both deeps were about completely packed at last check before winter (beginning of nov.)

[riverbee]

do not smoke the hive, open it quickly and set the feed on top of the frames.  some breeds of bees will go through stores quicker than others in the fall months.  the bottom deep is most likely empty, or with little in it, and like zoo said, they will not go back down for it.  learning to heft the hives and guaging the weight is a good practice to learn, however, bees can still cold starve with a top deep full, and inches away from frames of honey.  up here, i wouldn't say they were in trouble being in the top deep, (unless there is nothing in there) the cluster will expand between the bottom and top, and then the top, most of mine are pretty much in the top i think, (listening to the hives, can't open).  i keep russians, very conservative on stores.  if you are concerned about the stores, it does no harm to add fondant or winter patties directly on top the frames; i am not a fan of candy boards in our climate. the candy board, although with feed in it, is a barrier, they have to crawl up through whatever hole in the candyboard to access, whereas feed directly over the cluster is in direct access, directly over them.

ps bees are much cold hardy than we think they are. don't disturb the cluster, and you will be fine. have added feed on top of frames at 35 degrees.

[Finally Home]

What types of feed are you talking about??  Pollen patties??

[Jen]

Finally- I have heard these beeks say that when it's real cold outside and the bees hunker down, the don't go thru much honey. But if the weather is warmer and they get more active, that's when they go thru the food quickly.

[riverbee]

finally, each of us use something  different to supplement/feed the bees in winter, your choices are candyboard with fondant on it, fondant on top the frames, the newer winter patties sold by every large beekeeping company, and some use sugar, or the 'mountaincamp' method.  in southern climates you can use sugar syrup in a frame feeder, but i will let the southern keeps pipe in on this.

i do not add pollen patties until early march, pollen patties are different than winter patties, i'll post a link for you to see what i am referring to..

[riverbee]

winter patties,
these are from b and b honey farm:

B and B Honey Farm Winter Patties

[Finally Home]

Finally- I have heard these beeks say that when it's real cold outside and the bees hunker down, the don't go thru much honey. But if the weather is warmer and they get more active, that's when they go thru the food quickly.

Today was only the third day they have poked around outside. Temps have been normal to a little below normal. 
Took a peek in another hive (the one that was most active today) and they were also up top??
Guess I'll have to get some food in there just to be safe.  Was told by many keepers that 2 deeps in this area is plenty for winter.  Only had one say that they always leave a honey super on top of the 2 deeps.  Might have to do that next winter.

[Finally Home]

winter patties,
these are from b and b honey farm:

B and B Honey Farm Winter Patties

Thanks for the link.  If I do sugar for them, do I just mist it with water to pack it together a bit?  I have boards made for this so I might try that first.

[Perry]

Finally- I have heard these beeks say that when it's real cold outside and the bees hunker down, the don't go thru much honey. But if the weather is warmer and they get more active, that's when they go thru the food quickly.

This is true for the most part. During the coldest part of winter, the bees are tightly clustered and don't move much. When it warms up enough, the cluster can shift onto new stores. If it doesn't, they can get "stuck", inches away from frames full of honey.
If you have a mild fall, and the bees remain more active than usual, they can put a serious dent in their winter stores.
Alternatively, if you have a sudden early warm spell (like we did in March this year) your colonies can quickly ramp up brood production long before there is any forage available.
More hives die of starvation in March (location dependent) than at almost any other time of year, even after surviving the harsh of dead winter.

[Jen]

Fin, I have been told to not use pollen patties this early in winter, it would make the queen start brooding too early, which would break up the protective cluster, hence the hive would be in peril. Winter Patties is good winter food for bees, it just protein and carbs. I will get mine thru www.dadant.com, you can too.

Really good thread here guys. Thanks for the B and B Honey Farms info

[Finally Home]

That helps me understand a little more.  We did have a mild fall so maybe they hit the stores a lil early. 

[Slowmodem]

Thanks for the link.  If I do sugar for them, do I just mist it with water to pack it together a bit?  I have boards made for this so I might try that first.

You can put some newspaper down on top of the frames and pour the sugar on top of the newspaper.  you can mist the sugar to keep it from pouring down (or sliding down) between the frames.  The sugar will absorb moisture from inside the hive.  And if they don't eat all of it, you can make syrup from it in the spring.  I would put a shim or empty super around it and then put your inner cover telescoping cover on the empty super.

[Finally Home]

Much appreciated everyone.  Will get some sugar on them today and consider buying patties for next winter    
On the patties, can you purchase them early and store on the shelf or are they a fridge item?? Same question for pollen patties on storage.

[blueblood]

Does that hive have a screened bottom or wide open entrance by chance?