Swarm #2 For Jen

[Jen]

Hot Hive swarmed today. Big Swarm! It's a blessing! Now I have only half the amount of cranky bees to deal with 

There is only one thing that I'm annoyed with... they took my newly hatch queen with them.. she should have hatched about 1 week ago. I  found her later on the outside of the box with a lot of bees that would't go into the box. She's small.

Will a swarm leave a hive with an unmated queen?

Hot hive swarm



In the cedar tree again ~ Bless their little hearts


They slip down to the bottom branch


Put a deep box under the swarm


Give the branches a few good pulls, they will spread out for awhile, but will start to walk into the hive


After a couple of hours, I realized that queen must be on the outside. Found her and put her in queen cage in the box, then the bees moved into the hive box.


I put the queen in a cage because this swarm went to my friend Chris, his hive box. When he returned to get the swarm, I was able to show him the queen. Then he can release her when he gets home.

[Yankee11]

Yes, happens all the time.

[rwlaw]

Yup it's called a after swarm, depending on how many virgins survived and are running around after each other, y'all might have more.

[Perry]

Jen, are you going through your hives often enough, you should be able to head this kind of thing off to some degree? I see in a picture a neighbouring house, and I might be concerned that one of these days you may get a call from a very unhappy neighbour.
Good catch.

[LazyBkpr]

I am with Perry..  You should be (Trying) finding the cells before they are capped  and dealing with them before they swarm..   Do they have PLENTY of room to expand? Are they getting honey bound?  Yes, once in a while your going to lose a swarm, but it should be your goal to "attempt" to stop them from swarming...   Attempt...  I still get swarms, everyone does, but by the same token, I also manage to prevent quite a lot of them..   Once a week inspections, JUST popping the boxes and tilting them up to look for swarm cells (puff smoke across the bottom of the frames) and close them up again is usually enough. 
  Having said that, I think I would like to see if you can get any "starts" from that cedar tree?  I figure I can plant one in each outyard, and then all the swarms will go to that tree and be easy to catch!!!   

[Perry]

" Having said that, I think I would like to see if you can get any "starts" from that cedar tree?  I figure I can plant one in each outyard, and then all the swarms will go to that tree and be easy to catch!!!"  

I'm with that, maybe it's the tree!!

[Michelle]

Since this is my 2nd year for bees. What is the proceedure when you do find swarm cells? Suish them? Start a nuc?

[Jen]

Perry and Scott "Jen, are you going through your hives often enough, you should be able to head this kind of thing off to some degree?

    Scratching head... I thought I was with this hot hive, more than one thing going on with this hive. I pulled a nuc about 3 weeks ago, attempting to prevent swarming and hoping to calm the bees. Then I went by Iddee's math. I left hot hive alone until a possible queen would be hatched. We weren't sure if the original queen was left behind in this hive after pulling the nuc. Then Iddee said wait until the 13th when queen would be out, mated and laying and I could identify fresh eggs. We also had a 7 day cold snap, low 50's, so that prevented me from getting into the hives as well.

Scott- "Once a week inspections, JUST popping the boxes and tilting them up to look for swarm cells (puff smoke across the bottom of the frames) and close them up again is usually enough.

     I have attempted this two times this spring, I'm not getting how this is done safely, I'm avoiding it. This is what I do. I pop each corner of the hive box, then with the flat end of my hive tool I wedge and walk my hive tool to the center of the bottom of the box and try and pry the box upward, it doesn't get up high enough for me to get a good look see. It's very awkward. It feel like I need two hive tools to do this.

     Then, a hive might have say 4 meds on top of the brood boxes, do I need to take all of those off in order to crack the box that may have swarm cells?

     How about a educational vid on this procedure 


   

[tbonekel]

Jen, I had to learn this. Understand how you might be confused. Obviously, if you just break the seal, then tip, your box will likely fall off the front (or back) part of the box underneath. What I do is break the seal, then carefully slide the box backward so it will have someplace to rest when I tilt. Then I can tilt almost all the way to check. Also, I do completely remove the boxes one by one in order to tilt them. I do not tilt a stack together.

[Jen]

tbone, you are the honey in my tea today    Thanks!

    But do you mean slide the hive towards me? that would give the back end of the box to balance on the edges of the box beneath it. and then I can kneel down lift up with my heals of my hands?

    That makes so much sense 

[tbonekel]

Yes, I said backward, but what I meant to say was toward me.  I think you got it!

[Jen]

Thanks! I am a bit dyslexic... forward, backward, left, right... it's all kinda the same to me 

[Perry]

Since this is my 2nd year for bees. What is the procedure when you do find swarm cells? Squish them? Start a nuc?

If I find queen cells I remove the original queen with a few frames of bees (brood and stores) and make up a nuc and move it. Make sure you don't bring along any cells on those frames though.
I then either break the rest down into nucs, or go through it and leave what I think are the 2 best queen cells. I don't want to leave any more than that to try and head off after-swarms.
Always be extremely careful when removing queen cells (squish) unless you are sure you know the result you want. Removing them does not stop swarming, but more than likely will result in a queenless colony.

[Jen]

That's good and understandable advice Perry, Thanks,  I'm going into my mother hive today. My other two hives swarmed, so I'll see if I find any queen cells in mother hive. Might be nuc time ~

I'm working my way down my mother hive. I have the deep at the bottom and one med left to check for swarm cells. Do I need to lift the bottom deep to look for swarms cells as well?

[Michelle]

thanks Perry! Jen I hope you get this figured out! I am getting ready for our spring season (if it ever gets here) I want to make a few new hives so I will be watching what everyone is doing!

[Perry]

It is not often that I find swarm cells on the bottom of frames on the bottom deep but it does happen. If you want to be positive I would look.

[LazyBkpr]

If I find queen cells I remove the original queen with a few frames of bees (brood and stores) and make up a nuc and move it. Make sure you don't bring along any cells on those frames though.
I then either break the rest down into nucs, or go through it and leave what I think are the 2 best queen cells. I don't want to leave any more than that to try and head off after-swarms.
Always be extremely careful when removing queen cells (squish) unless you are sure you know the result you want. Removing them does not stop swarming, but more than likely will result in a queenless colony.

  That is exactly what I do. Well said Perry.
   Some claim you dont need to ever kill queen cells, and they may be right. My philosophy is, that I dont need my virgin queen fighting more than one fight, and I dont want to take more than a single risk at a cast.. Next, is the possibility that one of those queen cells is a dud, the chance both are is less..    its about the odds.   I have less chances of cast swarms with only two viable queen cells left. I have a good chance of having one viable queen cell. I have a good chance the first queen out will destroy the one still in her cell, and if they both emerge, I have a good chance they will fight, and only one will remain..   leaving half a dozen cells means they will cast, or there will be a lot of fighting going on.
      that is just my opinion and experience of course..