Excluders

[crazy8days]

I was reading what was posted last season on excluders or not.  I have always used them.  Had a couple queens last year find their way up through them which wrecked my honey harvest for those hives.  Last year I went to using mediums for my supers.  So, without the excluders on I let them build them up.  Then I placed my excluders once drawn.  This season can I place my excluders on, then a drawn super.  On top of that one that isn't drawn out yet.  Will they draw it out?

[blueblood]

You know from our previous conversation where I stand...I use them.  I never had a problem with them drawing the comb.  However, every yard has its particular variables.  I think if you don't mind having a sacrificial box (basically a third brood chamber) it's grand to exclude the excluders.  This will create some buffer for the honey barrier to appear.

[Riverrat]

yes they will draw it out when needed as long as your first box above the exluder is drawn comb

[CpnObvious]

SO how do you get them to build foundationless, or build out foundation, in a honey super if you don't want to risk her highness laying in there?  While I'll only be able to try to get honey from 2 hives this year, everything is either going to be foundationless or virgin foundation... No excluder and take the risks?

[riverbee]

"Then I placed my excluders once drawn.  This season can I place my excluders on, then a drawn super.  On top of that one that isn't drawn out yet.  Will they draw it out?"

like rat said crazy yes they will.  you could also consider placing the undrawn super on first, (without excluder), when its drawn, place excluder back on and add your additional drawn super as needed.

[ledifni]

So if I'm understanding all this right, it's a bad idea to put on an excluder and then nothing but undrawn foundation above it?  I was going to do that this year since I don't have any old drawn foundation to work with.  Will they refuse to draw it out?

Another alternative might be to allow them to mostly draw one super, and then put a queen excluder beneath it and another super (or two) on top of that.  Only thing there is I would have to be very careful not to trap the queen above the excluder, in case she wanders up there once the comb is drawn.

[Riverrat]

 

So if I'm understanding all this right, it's a bad idea to put on an excluder and then nothing but undrawn foundation above it?  I was going to do that this year since I don't have any old drawn foundation to work with.  Will they refuse to draw it out?

Another alternative might be to allow them to mostly draw one super, and then put a queen excluder beneath it and another super (or two) on top of that.  Only thing there is I would have to be very careful not to trap the queen above the excluder, in case she wanders up there once the comb is drawn.

Its hard to get the bees to draw foundation placed directly above the excluder.  your 2nd alternative will work.  Once they have a good start on drawing out the foundation you can put the exluder on. 

[tbonekel]

I haven't used an excluder. Probably beginners luck last year, but I never had the queen go up top. I figured that if she did, I just wouldn't use that frame.  I do crush and strain and my thought was that any frame that had brood in it would be put back on the hive with the empty frames from crush and strain. The bees would clean them up and the brood would emerge and hopefully, I would then have a drawn frame for the next time......in theory.

[LazyBkpr]

I have found that a hole in the super, or a notch in the inner cover will help speed the process of getting the supers drawn..   Gives them a way in and out without going through the excluder.

[riverbee]

"So if I'm understanding all this right, it's a bad idea to put on an excluder and then nothing but undrawn foundation above it? "

yes.

"I was going to do that this year since I don't have any old drawn foundation to work with.  Will they refuse to draw it out?"

best results, excluder left off.

"Another alternative might be to allow them to mostly draw one super, and then put a queen excluder beneath it and another super (or two) on top of that.  Only thing there is I would have to be very careful not to trap the queen above the excluder, in case she wanders up there once the comb is drawn."

timing, when the foundation is drawn then place the excluder on.  even if you happen to get behind and the queen lays up in it, just make sure shes not up there, place an excluder on. the bees will take care of the brood in that super and when all has hatched, the bees turn it back into honey storage.

[capt44]

I personally don't use a honey excluder (whoops Queen Excluder)
I use it in queen rearing to confine the queen in a timing box so I'll know exactly how old the larva is.
That's all I use them for is to restrict the queens ability move around the hive.

[sc-bee]

I personally don't use a honey excluder (whoops Queen Excluder)
I use it in queen rearing to confine the queen in a timing box so I'll know exactly how old the larva is.
That's all I use them for is to restrict the queens ability move around the hive.

Capt... I know you did not say that  I have several, they are all laying on the ground covered in leaves.... hope I don't trip on them

[Slowmodem]

I have been known to use a queen excluder under the brood box when hiving a swarm to ensure they stay put.  They stayed, but I don't know if it was because of the excluder.  I like to think it is.

[brooksbeefarm]

I use them especially for comb honey if not for anything else . I also use them for honey production, but like stated above i put bait frames above them.They are good for raising queens and two queen colonies.Like many beekeeping tools, it's knowing how and when to use them. Jack

[sc-bee]

I have been known to use a queen excluder under the brood box when hiving a swarm to ensure they stay put.  They stayed, but I don't know if it was because of the excluder.  I like to think it is.

slowm that is not an excluder.... you just invented  the includer  It is a handy tip used by some for with swarms.... but not for a long period.

[Slowmodem]

I have been known to use a queen excluder under the brood box when hiving a swarm to ensure they stay put.  They stayed, but I don't know if it was because of the excluder.  I like to think it is.

I guess I should have heeded my own advice.  I went out today to take the swarm box out of the tree and start moving it towards the bee yard and when I too the top off, there was only three or four bees crawling around inside snooping around.  I guess they decided they didn't like it there.   

So I just set the hive box on some cinder blocks at the bottom of the tree and put another q-tip with lemongrass oil inside.  There was one bee sitting in the entrance fanning and buzzing up a storm.  So who knows?  Bees sure can be peculiar!

[Slowmodem]

I have been known to use a queen excluder under the brood box when hiving a swarm to ensure they stay put.  They stayed, but I don't know if it was because of the excluder.  I like to think it is.

slowm that is not an excluder.... you just invented  the includer  It is a handy tip used by some for with swarms.... but not for a long period.

Yep, the last time i did that, I just left it on for a few days.  I should have used it this time.  See my other post.

[riverbee]

"That's all I use them for is to restrict the queens ability move around the hive."

that's what i use them for capt44, to restrict the queens ability to mess up my comb honey and honey supers..........
what jack said........

"I use them especially for comb honey if not for anything else. I also use them for honey production, but like stated above i put bait frames above them.They are good for raising queens and two queen colonies.Like many beekeeping tools, it's knowing how and when to use them. Jack"

[Bakersdozen]

So if I'm understanding all this right, it's a bad idea to put on an excluder and then nothing but undrawn foundation above it?  I was going to do that this year since I don't have any old drawn foundation to work with.  Will they refuse to draw it out?

At some point every new beekeeper has to start with undrawn foundation in their supers. It will take a strong nectar flow for them to draw it out, but they will do it.  Once done, I always put drawn foundation on first then undrawn foundation on top of that.  If I have 2 or more supers with drawn foundation I will put multiples on at the same time.  That works in this part of the country anyway.  Some beekeepers don't like excluders, but I have always used them. 

[tecumseh]

I pretty much use excluder (in the specific use of rearing a honey crop) much in the same way described in Jerry Hayes very dated article 'is a queen excluder a honey excluder'.   How I place new space above the excluder is largely dependent on whether I am have comb or foundation in the box added.  this pretty much describes how I do things >

a riverbee snip...

'you could also consider placing the undrawn super on first, (without excluder), when its drawn, place excluder back on and add your additional drawn super as needed.'