Author Topic: New super above or below?  (Read 10037 times)

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Offline Jen

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 03:12:37 pm »
Nooope, I sure didn't. Does that mean all those half filled frames are useless now?
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Offline iddee

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 03:26:47 pm »
Check them. If they look good, they are good. If they are nothing but cobwebs and manure, they aren't any good.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline Jen

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 03:36:00 pm »
Cool! They're all still good, I check them yesterday.

Another thing I've been doing is when the supers are on, I only keep one on at a time, I give a quick looksee once a week, when another frame is completely capped, I put it in the freezer for now, then replace with one of the half filled frames. A constant rotation of sorts
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Offline Lburou

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 03:56:05 pm »
We have had a great start this spring in north central texas.  Been too rainy lately though.  I under supered a couple strong hives two weeks ago and both had drawn all deep frames equally and filled a couple frames since.  Don't know if it's the year or undersupering, I suspect its the year.

Tec, I missed you at the TAMU queen rearing event May, 2.  Was able to have an extended chat with Sue Cobey though.  Was a good day.  :-)
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Offline efmesch

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 04:52:33 pm »
Another consideration in favor of undersupering comes into play when you are putting on frames for building.  The further the bees are away from the queen when they build cells, the more likely they are to build worker cells.  With worker cell sized foundation you are more or less protected, but if given a chance, bees building cells for honey storage will almost always prefer to make the larger cells, this uses less wax per unit area.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with larger cells except that you won't be able to put them in the brood nest to have the queen lay worker brood.
This comment is irrelevent if you're supering with built frames in the supers.
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Offline Jen

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 05:49:11 pm »
Are forager bees, worker bees, nurse bees, guard bees, all in the same catagory as 'worker bees'?
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Offline efmesch

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2015, 05:52:07 pm »
Absolutely!  :yes:
They change their jobs as they age and as the needs of the hive change.  But they are all "undeveloped" females.

Offline Jen

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2015, 06:04:16 pm »
Would you be so kind as to explain 'undeveloped'?  :)
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Offline efmesch

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2015, 06:15:30 pm »
Queens and workers are both genetically females.  Those female larvae that are fed an extended rich diet of royal jelly develop fully into females with developed ovaries and organs and glands that give them the ability to mate and lay eggs etc.  The workers are fed royal jelly for a shorter period and not in the same profusion.  As a result, their physical development is "stunted" or "incomplete". 
This explains why queens can be raised from selected female eggs that are fed fully and then develop into queens.  It also explains why workers, under certain conditions (most notably, the lack of queen pheromones in the hive which serve to suppress the dveelopment of the workers' ovaries) can become egg layers.  However, not having properly developed female secondary sex organs, they are incapable of mating and therefore only lay drone (unfertilized) eggs.
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Offline Jen

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2015, 06:44:07 pm »
 :goodjob: Perfect! Thank You Ef  ;)  I wish I would have had teachers like you when I was a youngster in school  ;)
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Offline riverbee

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2015, 12:35:04 am »
so jen back to tbone's question?............... :D

"The last bee meeting I went to, there was a guy that said when adding supers, place them below full supers. Make sense or not? I can reason both ways."

i don't tbone, sometimes i have switched around, but typically i leave them as they are and have had them stacked as high as 7 or 8 on strong hives. i don't have problems with wax moth or shb. i harvest once a year.

i use queen excluders with drawn foundation, i don't like  queens in the supers, and in a dearth they will utilize honey and before you know it, the dearth ends and your queen is laying in a honey super (without the excluder). i am picky this way. if i think i can keep an eye on this and a good nectar year,  i will remove the excluder and monitor closely. 

i use top entrances, and if mulitple supers are on, imrie shims go on as well,  to give the forager bees access to the top.

in my HO, a good queen WILL lay in an empty super unrestricted by an excluder, there is nothing to stop her.

i have found no difference of honey collection, with or without an excluder on, of placing drawn foundation underneath a full super of honey.......in a good year.
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Offline efmesch

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2015, 03:10:42 am »
It was very late at night when I wrote reply #28, so I kept it as short as possible. 
As I went to sleep, I thought of an important practical lesson that we humans should learn from the bees on the topic of nutition in our early stages of development.

About 100 years ago, young girls usually had their menarche (first period) when about 16 yrs old.  As we learned more about nutrition and put these  proper eating principles into practice,  the age of menarche become younger and younger, going down to about 12, and perhaps even younger.  Better nutrition lead to earlier and healthier development.

Young girls who are anorexic, (for whatever reason they may have) are causing themselves  potentially irreparable physiological damage as they mature.  This damage can have severe consequences in later years, causing all sorts of reproductive problems, among them, difficulties in becoming pregnant when they want to, maintainig a pregnancy to term and in giving birth.  We know that, with bees, once the critical stages of development have passed, there is no way to repair the situation---there is no second chance to become a queen. 

Although the issues are more complex in humans, there is good reason to believe that at least some of the damage anorexic girls cause themselves  is residual and posssibly irreparable.

Please note that above statements are not based on specific research studies that I know of.    What little research I did on the internet as I posted the above remarks shows a lot of variable and not always consistant conclusions. I have used the terms such as  "may have", "can have" and "possibly", to emphasize this point.  However, all agree that anorexia is highly damaging and health effecting.
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Offline DavidD

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2015, 01:40:55 pm »

About 100 years ago, young girls usually had their menarche (first period) when about 16 yrs old. 

Well said  EF
 I tend to agree

Offline riverbee

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2015, 12:50:22 am »
to the original question on this thread.......new super above or below?   ;D






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Offline tbonekel

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2015, 08:48:29 am »
Thanks to the comments, I decided to reverse the new super and put it on top. I also put a few drawn and capped frames in that super to entice the bees to start working on it. Part of the reason they may have not really started on it is because they are all foundationless frames, but they do have quite a bit of wax at the top to help them start.  We will see what happens.

Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2015, 09:20:07 am »
I top super, it's easier and takes less time when i'm at outyards. I also have top entrance on all hives year round. So far no problems. Jack

Offline pistolpete

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2015, 09:34:03 pm »
If you want nice foundationless frames, instead of a complicated work of art, you need to alternate fully drawn frames and foundationless ones.
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline efmesch

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2015, 01:25:03 am »
Just keep in mind that you'll probably end up with frames of drone cells.

Offline tbonekel

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2015, 09:29:23 am »
Drone cells in the super? I don't really care as long as they are filled with honey. The drone comb that they have built in the past has gone to the outside of the box and they have filled those with honey just fine. I crush and strain those. So far, they haven't built drone cells in my supers. I think, because that get their drone urges satisfied in the lower deeps.

Offline Ray

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Re: New super above or below?
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2015, 05:00:02 pm »
I've seen drone brood in supers. I think it's laying workers sneaking in a small patch. I believe efmesch was talking about drone in the brood nest. Foundation-less at the wrong time and you'll have a mess.