When Is Comb Too Dark And Old

[Jen]

I've been rearranging frames this spring, and have taken out about 6 or more frames that are what I think are too dark, and don't smell fresh. They have a slightly burnt odor. When I press of the comb it can be brittle.

What are some good signs that the comb needs replacement? And, can that comb be used for anything else?

[efmesch]

Dark combs should not be considered in need of replacement just because of their color.  There are advantages to dark, well used combs--in particular, they are not fragile.  Dark combs spin well in extractors without breaking. If the bees are willing to use them, then take their word for it, that the combs are still good. 
HOWEVER, if you know that the comb has been used with diseased brood, even if the bees will use them, get rid of them.  Also, if there are a lot of stretched cells that lead the queen to lay a lot of drone brood, they can be used, but only for honey storage.  If you use a smoker, why shouldn''t the combs get a burnt odor after many cycles of hive checking? 
Keep in mind though, dark combs tend to darken the honey they contain, so if you're after a very light honey, don't use these frames for production.

[Ray]

What efmesch said.
I don't use poisons in the hive (yet). There aren't any large orchards near me. I don't worry about wax in the dark combs retaining stuff. I have some dark combs that are only one year old.

[pistolpete]

There seems to be fairly strong agreement out there that combs should be discarded after about 5 years because of pesticide build up in the wax.  So you probably don't have any comb yet that's too old.  Maybe start to think about cycling out 20% of your oldest comb annually, starting next year.

[Bakersdozen]

I started dating newly installed frames this year.  That way I will know exactly how old they are.  I wrote, with a Sharpie, 2015 on top of the new frames.  I add that as part of my goal to keep better records this year.

[Jen]

Good info here    don't live near any orchards or farm land, so the wax is pretty clean. I do remember reading on the forum to have nice clean new drawn frames for honey. But if the honey ripens in the dark comb, I wouldn't mind if it came out darker.

Also, read that dark come is a good attractant in swarm traps?

[brooksbeefarm]

I have dark comb probably as old as perry, and the girls haven't complained. Jack

[Ray4852]

4 years is long enough for me.

[Bakersdozen]

The comb in my supers isn't dark and they are over 5 years old.  It's beautiful.  But...I always use an queen excluder and never have any brood in the supers.  The frames that I have started dating this year are in brood boxes. 

I did inherit some frames of comb that were so dark I couldn't filter the crud out.  There wasn't much so I eventually threw it out. 

[Jen]

Yah Baker, that is what I'm wondering about. I'm also seeing the scenario that maybe the dark comb that remains in the hive for years is good, as long as it is being used. But, say your switching out frames for what ever reason, and you put some frames in the shed for a season or two, maybe that's when they get brittle and unusable.

[Bakersdozen]

Jen, I find that older comb gets hard.  I am not sure if you are talking about comb in the supers or hive bodies.  I have had comb from the super given to me.  I melted it down and used it for wax.  It had set where it had collected dirt.  I didn't know if the bees could properly clean that up, and I didn't want to consume it.  I also didn't want the bees spending their time doing housekeeping when they could be collecting and storing nectar.

[Jen]

Baker, any comb at all really. Been learning this year about brood comb and honey comb. Read here that you want nice white clean comb for honey. Then Ef says that honey that comes from dark comb with be a little darker than honey in brand new white comb, but doesn't change the quality of the honey.

Basically just wondering if there is a time when the comb may be too old.

[tbonekel]

I've got some black comb in a few hives. The bees seem to like and use it, so I leave it in. I keep thinking I should probably change it out and let it graduate to a swarm trap, but I just haven't.

[Bakersdozen]

Dang it!  This darned thing signs you out at the most inappropriate times!
So I will repeat my response. 

When and if a beekeeper changes out comb is a matter of personal choice, I think.  If a colony doesn't flourish for reasons unknown, and there are old black combs in there, I would consider pesticide residue as a possible cause.  The beekeeper has an idea of what is going on in that colony's "neighborhood".

"Ef says that honey that comes from dark comb will be a little darker than honey from a brand new comb, but the quality will be the same. "  I don't have any experience with this as all my supers are still filled with white comb.  I was always under the assumption that the color of the honey was predetermined by the source of the nectar.

[iddee]

When logging in, do not use the login in the upper right corner. Use the login link in the tool bar. Check the square "Always stay logged in". Then you won't be logged out anytime.

Nectar source does determine the color of honey, but it can be darkened from other sources after it is capped.

[riverbee]

"I've been rearranging frames this spring, and have taken out about 6 or more frames that are what I think are too dark, and don't smell fresh. They have a slightly burnt odor. When I press of the comb it can be brittle.
What are some good signs that the comb needs replacement? And, can that comb be used for anything else?"

1~ too dark brood comb or comb for supers?
2~ don't smell fresh, burnt odor, brittle......................maybe from how they were stored or maybe mite treatments applied that affected it?
3~ good signs to replace?

my answer for myself, i have and have had brood comb 20 years old or older, and comb in supers the same age. beekeepers don't like to give drawn comb up, because of the work bees have to draw new comb out to replace old comb, and this takes away from brood and/or honey production.
brood comb is different than comb in supers (my ho), unless comb in supers has been used for brood rearing or the queen has layed up in whatever honey super frame year after year with no excluder on, and we can tell the difference. the cells or frames are much darker. 

good IPM practices is to change out frames. BROOD FRAMES. i change frames out every year, (one at a time) and sometimes very reluctantly.   when i can't see through a frame and it is blacker than black, the frame gets marked to rotate out, and i know it needs to go.
honey supers........i don't change out frames of honey supers very often.  but i use queen excluders.

you are young in beekeeping jen, not sure how these frames: brood, or supers have a burnt smell to them?  brood frames naturally get dark, and overtime they get very dark. like i said/asked perhaps the burnt smell is from mite treatment or storage?

i agree with ef, any honey stored and capped in brood comb, will be darker, the comb affects the color.

[Curtchann]

If anyone has any old dark brood comb they would like to get rid of, I'm in need of some for my swarm traps. Please PM me and we can work out details. If someone close to me has some, that would be perfect. Not a problem driving to pick up. 

[LazyBkpr]

I try to cycle SOME new comb in every year..  A few old ones come out and go into nucs, and new frames go in to be drawn out..  In theory, it should work out that I have replaced all of the comb every 4 or 5 years.. but I have cut out comb, and dropped the frame back in.... having forgotten my marker, or even a utensil to WRITE with...  I have lost track of some comb...............

[Jen]

Every year is a new adventure in learning about my bees. This year I'm learning about bee space. It seems that each time I'm visiting the hives, I'm shuffling frames around a bit adding new pulled frame or blank frames. When I'm done with the inspection I always end up with a couple or more frames for the shed. So I think the rotation is pretty good here as well.

[Zweefer]

So is your main goal this year to produce drawn frames jen?