Author Topic: Dwindling  (Read 5378 times)

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Offline Papakeith

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Dwindling
« on: June 12, 2015, 08:01:30 am »
I've got a second year hive that seemed to make it through winter OK.  Not great, but OK.  Then spring set in.  Since then their numbers have dwindled to the point that they are only covering three frames. 
The queen is there, and there is brood in all stages, yet their numbers never seem to increase.  I probably should have made a decision a month ago but didn't.  At this point, other than just watching the show I'm not sure what to do with them. 
The temps are finally increasing, so I'm hopeful that they will be able to bounce back.  I'm really curious about some of the possible causes for this.
I'm starting to think that the bees are keeping me...

Offline iddee

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 08:06:24 am »
A good possibility is the queen is trapped between two frames of pollen. Give her some empty drawn comb and move the pollen frames to the outside and she might take off.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 09:27:22 am »
Mites can do it as well..  I have seen hives literally explode after being treated.. I do not know if its actually the mites or diseases associated with them.. Nosema Cerenae is another possibility. Sometimes its just numbers..  adding a frame of open brood with the nurse bees can be the tipping point and they will begin to grow exponentially...
    You have to decide if its worth it.. is the queens pattern looking good? Younger queen?  etc...  If they do not grow there is usually a reason. Growth, and swarming is their lifes ambition, so if they are not attempting those things its up to us to figure out why, or cut the losses.
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Offline G3farms

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 09:33:31 am »
My first thought was honey bound with no room to lay. Look at the brood nest and make sure it is open for the queen to lay in.
Bees are bees and do as they please!

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Offline Papakeith

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 02:21:21 pm »
thanks for the ideas

the hive is certainly not honey bound. They have 20 frames drawn, three with brood and numbers of bees just enough cover that brood. Maybe three more frames that are filled with some nectar.  They aren't or at least don't seem to be packing it away.  I think that they are more into survival rather than gathering at this point.  All hands on deck to keep the brood warm.  I think the late cold snap may have killed their spring build up process and they just haven't recovered.  At least I hope that is what is going on. 
One thing that I should have done, but didn't is to knock them back down to a single deep.  I guess I always expected them to rebound.

 The pattern, what there is of it looks solid.  The queen is coming up on her first birthday and is a pretty good looking queen by my estimation.

I treated with MAQS  (August last year). Then again with Apivar in November/December after most of the brood was gone. 

I'm not seeing any sign of disease, but that certainly doesn't mean that there isn't any.

I'm going in this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

I'll check for frames of pollen that may be blocking her up as well as double checking how much open comb she has overall to work with.
I'd like to see this hive survive.  so I'll put the effort into it.  I may pull a frame of brood from another hive to bolster their numbers.
If I remember, I'll bring my camera out to the hive and get some shots.
I'm starting to think that the bees are keeping me...

Offline Perry

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 06:19:24 pm »
Sometimes it's just a numbers thing. There are only so many bees to raise so much brood, despite what the queen can lay. I have found that if you can swipe a frame of brood or two from a couple of hives to give it a boost it may just take off from there.
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 10:07:31 pm »
I have had the same problem with one of my colonies . I'll try swapping in a couple frames and see what happens!

Talk about timely!  :yes:
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
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Offline rwlaw

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Re: Dwindling
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 07:12:29 am »
Ya, a queen won't lay any more than what bees there is to cover the brood. By all means, give them a frame of the oldest capped brood that you can find. I know it sounds overbearing, but don't forget to give em a couple shakes of bees also.
From the sounds of it, they could be put in a nuc box, if you have one, for a couple three weeks to build up their population. My ole bk'n bud poo poos it, but I think if a hive is in too big of a box they lose confidence and get in a circle the wagons mode and don't grow easily.
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