I like wax-painted plastic frames

[efmesch]

The topic of plastic frames has been raised indirectly in a few other posts.  Rather than hijacking the topics, I thought I'd dedicate a new one to the subject.

My past experience with plastic frames has generally been pretty negative.  The bees just don't like to build on them unless they have a desperate need for new combs, and even then, they often do their building between the frames (perpendicularly, like ladder rungs)  and not on the frames.

Plastic frames, in principle, have several nice advantages and it's a shame to miss out on them: 
They are light
They are strong and don't come apart at the "joints"
They are flexible

This year, I attempted to fix the avoidance problem by a "new" method. 

Before putting the frames into the hive for building, I "painted" the surfaces of the plastic foundation with bees wax.  Using a new paint brush, I dipped it into liquid bees wax (straight from my solar extractor) and quickly painted across the plastic on both sides.  The "wax paint" came off on the raised hexagonal  markings of the plastic and did not, for the most part, sink into the bases of the cells. From that point on, I dealt with them as I do with my wooden frames having sheets of foundation.

Results---great!   The plastic frames were accepted and built up just as the regular frames: good, even construction of worker sized cells, just where they were supposed to be.  The cells were filled with honey like the rest and have already been returned to the hives after a successful extraction.

If any of you are hesitating to buy plastic frames, or have old "unusable" plastic frames, I suggest you try them out next season after a wax paint job. 

[tbonekel]

I just don't understand why they make the frames with all the nooks and crannies. They are perfect hiding places for SHB. Plus, I wish they would have integrated some travel options from one side of the frame to the other. The plastic frames I have don't have any, and if the bees want to go to the other side, they have to travel around the outside of the frame. When I see natural built comb, the bees very rarely fill the entire frame with wax. There are always a few holes for them to travel through.

[efmesch]

Good and valid points, Tbone.
I think the "nooks and crannies" are the manufacturer's means of saving on material,
As to "cross holes" they should be easy enough to make on your own, if you feel that they really need them.  I don't know if the extra distance really makes a difference though.  Think of those beautiful honey frames we love to see, built "wall-to-wall".

[LazyBkpr]

No SHB problems up here, and I dont have an issue with them being plastic or getting the bees to draw them. If I want them drawn I give them no other choice, and they go to work!  The problem I notice with them is when they are hard propolised in place.. trying to pry them to the side etc to get them loose they flex and warp, scrushing comb and bees as I try to pry..  If I just pry straight up, they will suddenly make a POP sound and I will find the top bar broken..  I DO have several of these frames in service, because the silly bees decided to draw them instead of the wood/plastic or foundation less..       Attempting to get rid of them so I am no longer tempted to use them when I suddenly need a frame.  I suppose, like anything else, if you are aware of the limitations and considerations they would be useable.
   

[Perry]

I don't care for the plastic frames so much, but have absolutely no problem with the wax coated plastic foundation. Like Scott mentioned, I really don't like the flex in the frame itself.

[Lburou]

Efmesh, I used a different solution to coat with wax.  Using a 16 quart stock pot filled with hot water, (165 F), to three inches from the top, then, placing a one pound block of beeswax in the water to melt, it was ready to dip the naked frames for a thin wax coating (wax floats on top of the water and coats the frame on contact).  Add more wax as needed.

That said, I think a good compromise, (my overall preference), is the wooden frames with plastic (wax coated) foundation.    I've discovered the plastic frames tend warp a bit, provide hideouts for pests, break in the cold and don't have good manners in my new motorized radial extractor (but, that could be operator error ;-) ).

   :-)

[Bakersdozen]

Like Lee, I use wooden frames with plastic foundation.  Before installing in a hive, I take a small sponge roller brush dipped in melted beeswax and give a quick covering on both sides of the foundation.  I think it's very good use of your wax, especially if you don't have enough to make candles.  The wax is never wasted when it is given back to you bees.

[apisbees]

Plastic frames and foundation sheets can be bought with or without a wax coating. The wax is sprayed on the frame and is very thin. If the frames are put on the hive when there is a good flow the bees will readily start to work it. If it is put on and there is not a good flow the bees will salvage the wax to use in other places. Once the wax is striped away the bees wont work it. You will find sides of combs that the bees have drawn part but wont finish the bottom or corners because they have striped the wax.
When you find dry areas of comb carry a smaller block of wax to rub on those dry areas. As efmesch said only the top of the hexagon needs the coat of wax to get the bees working it. I know of beekeepers that wax rub all their new plastic to encourage the bees to work it and not strip the wax off.

[Jen]

I've tried bare plastic and wax coated plastic frames. The bees do work them, but slowly. I dislike the same situation as LzyBkpr, when trying to loosen or pry the top bar up from the ends, several of them break apart.

In my case where I have only 3 hives I can afford to build my wooden frames with wax sheets. I really like that the most.

[pistolpete]

I have about a hundred and fifty plastic frames in use right now, and about the same number of wood with wax foundation.   Like efmensh indicated: frames painted with a paint brush (so that a kind of ring or rim forms on each cell) are readily accepted and drawn quickly.   What actually happens is that the bees take that rim of wax and re-shape it into the first half of the cell wall.  The frame gets half drawn without the bees actually having to secrete any wax.  I don't believe dipping or spraying the frames achieves the same result. 

The down side is the same as others have observed.  After a couple of years the plastic starts to get brittle and it gets tricky to work the frames without breaking the ears.  In the extractor on the other hand, the plastic frames are much harder to damage than wood.  Also the plastic frames are square and even and ready to go the minute you bring them home. 

I am really tending toward using wood frames in the brood boxes and plastic in the supers.

[kingd]

I too paint wax on and it seems to make a big difference,I bought a small crock pot at a second hand store for $3 and it works great at melting the wax.


 I have some plastic frames that were given to me and on a few of them the bees filled nooks and crannies with propolis.
So I used a hot melt glue and filled the nooks on some of the others,Not sure if it was the smartest thing to do but the bees didn't
care.

[Lburou]

...When you find dry areas of comb carry a smaller block of wax to rub on those dry areas. As efmesch said only the top of the hexagon needs the coat of wax to get the bees working it.....

Thanks Apis, I'll try this.  :-)

PistolPete, you can apply a thick layer of wax while dipping with a lower temperature or slower dipping action -but, if you are too slow, it warps the frame.  I wanted enough wax to get them started, that is all.  I'm cheap, had to buy the wax to coat the 100 plastic frames that Lazy Shooter gave me.

Thanks for the thread Ef, I'm taking something away that is useful.  :-)

[efmesch]

Lee, your comment, "I'm taking something away that is useful" made my evening. 

In the past i have been frustrated too often by plastic frames not being built, or by their combs being built off the foundation.  This year, for the first time I tried the wax paint job and it worked beautifully. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike wooden frames, but when I think of the time and effort involved in assembling the wooden frames, installing eyes in the holes, stringing the wires, tightening them, inserting the wax foundation and then heating the wires so that they stay in the foundation,  and compare all that to the simple brushing of wax paint on a perfectly made plastic frame, it's a no brainer.  I have plenty of wax from my wax extractor and don't have to buy sheets of foundation.  Besides, even though plastic frames sometimes break, so do the wooden ones, and when they have lost their ears, they too become problematic. 

Having come along with this simple painting method, I can see my future purchcases of frames leaning heavily in favor of plastic.

[LazyBkpr]

when I think of the time and effort involved in assembling the wooden frames, installing eyes in the holes, stringing the wires, tightening them, inserting the wax foundation and then heating the wires so that they stay in the foundation,  and compare all that to the simple brushing of wax paint on a perfectly made plastic frame, it's a no brainer. 

   You make a good point!
   The difference for me is the cost. I can  sit and make 500 frames from scratch at about 20 cents each as opposed to paying a dollar each, or more. It keeps me busy when the snow is blowing and the wind is howling...    It still costs me the same dollar for the foundation to put in the frames, provided I USE foundation...   Quite often I do not, and that does cost me a bit more work, but there again, the time spent fussing is easier for me to deal with than the initial cost...
   Yes, wooden frames will break, and do break. The difference is that I can usually repair the wooden frame with a bit of glue. If I break the ear off, I can staple on a bent piece of metal to replace it..   Have nopt been successful repairing the plastic frames as of yet..  I have tried Testers model glue, Super glue, and gorilla glue...   still no joy.. some hold, until you pry again, then snap instantly...
   I am REALLY wishing for some of the old style model glue, the kind that came in the Orange and white tube that smelled so nice...  nowdaysm you can only buy the blue and white tubes so the morons dont hurt themselves sniffing it....

[riverbee]

i don't care for the plastic frames. i use wood frames and i do use waxed plastic foundation and learned right away when i switched to using them to wax the frames. i do as bakersdozen does by using a small sponge trim roller brush dipped in melted beeswax and give a quick covering on both sides of the foundation. also, as keith said, one can also use a small block of wax to wax frames with, as he said, it does work, and "If it is put on (wax coating) and there is not a good flow the bees will salvage the wax to use in other places. Once the wax is stripped away the bees wont work it."  very true they won't, so having a block of wax around to rub on will get them started again, or frame removed until flow starts, rub the wax on, then they will work it.

tbone~
"I wish they would have integrated some travel options from one side of the frame to the other. The plastic frames I have don't have any, and if the bees want to go to the other side, they have to travel around the outside of the frame."

drill, drill bit/spadebit = travel option through the frame..............

[Ray]

I really like my plastic frames. The two drawbacks I've noticed are: 1) The side frames, with their hollows, tend to chop up bees. 2) The extra wax required to get good results.
The hives seem to be much cleaner. My bees don't propalize as much as with wood frames.

[LazyBkpr]

You can also snip the corners of the foundation off and the bees will use those corners to move through.

[Ray]

Fixing broken off tabs.
I once repaired a plastic water pump that had frozen and cracked. I welded the crack shut with an electric soldering iron and some extra plastic scavenged off other areas of the pump. I haven't needed to try this myself, yet.

[apisbees]

We had a plastics class when I was in senior high school where we molded, glued, heat welded, plastics. For welding we use a electric heat coil to heat the air produced from a compressor. kind of like a heat gun but much hotter and a much more controlled air flow out of a fine tip. A few years back I had to fix a broken O ring lip on an ice cream machine. remembering what we used in class i connected the compressor hose to a coil of 1/4" copper pipe and a short piece with a fine tip for welding I placed the coil in the oven and like Ray I salvaged extra plastic off the outside corners.