Author Topic: Looking for ideas  (Read 16373 times)

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Offline Perry

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Looking for ideas
« on: August 09, 2015, 09:14:16 pm »
Given up on trying to save for a proper honey house so we went to bank and applied for funds to help put one up. We have 2 acres of land with a well and septic just 10 minutes outside of town. I finally have DOT approval on the driveway and the DOE OK'd the well and septic. All I need now is a set of basic plans.
I am thinking something around 1,000 to 1,200 sq ft. on a concrete pad with a about a 1 foot concrete wall around the edge of the pad to keep the wood up so hosing floors is easy.
Because of zoning I want to make this place look somewhat like a residence which will help in a future sale if the time comes when I have to stop. A home would be much easier to sell than a "garage" type building.
At this point I have been lugging each and every super from the back of my truck to the back door, down a flight of stairs, extract it, and then lug the empties back up. With the amount of colonies I now have this just is not sustainable anymore after this year. I have all the equipment I could use to make extracting seem almost pleasurable, but no ideal place to set it all up.
I am thinking something basic (cheap) to the extreme. 4 walls with a full bathroom in one corner, and the rest being a completely open floor plan. I can always partition things off as they dictate later. I think a steep pitch roof, maybe a 12/12 to allow for possible storage above?
I have scoured looking for plans and images but nothing yet. Anyone have any ideas or pictures of something suitable?


  Get rid of the garage doors and put in some windows and a man door?


"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 09:29:32 pm »
I would disagree with one idea. No honey house should be without drive in ability. A garage door for a fork lift to enter, or a quick entrance with a pickup in a pouring rain. You think carrying supers is bad, wait until you start carrying 600 lb. drums out and loading them.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 09:32:54 pm »
I can't really call it a "honey house" when I submit my plans. It will be referred to as a "seasonal dwelling", so garage doors may be a tough sell. I was thinking of a nice "deck" (loading dock) and a set of double doors out to the deck. ;)
This has been a pita when it comes to dealing with certain government departments. If it is anything other than a "dwelling" they want me to push it back 120 feet further from the front property line, which would move it 120 feet further away and downhill from the the well and septic. I would then have to pump up to the septic.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 09:52:03 pm »
Will the double doors take a pickup?

Beez Needz just built a ""barn"". A commercial building was rejected. With a special use permit, he could open a bee supply store in the barn. The barn has a front porch and a roll up garage door in the rear. All concrete floor, rest room, and office.
Can you build an "animal enclosure"?  The only "barn" is the outside shape, painted red with a metal roof. We call it the bee barn.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2015, 09:55:16 pm »
Looking at your first pic, do as you said, but the X on the front would be a sliding 10 X 10 door.
When you said sliding door, I took it as a double sliding glass door. My mistake there.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2015, 10:00:34 pm »
How about a 30 X 40 with a rentable suit up stairs as a mortgage helper How much can you rent a 1 bedroom loft for in NS.
Iddee just posted Not a standard 36" doors but you can get doors that are 4 ft wide and 8 feet tall which would allow a truck in. or could use a carport over the loading dock. Level dock so unloading with a hand truck will save many trips of heavy lifting.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2015, 10:08:34 pm »
I don't know how many folks would want to rent a suite right above a honey house, but it's a thought. 30 by 40 is big, not sure I could afford it. I am hoping to put something basic up for around 25G. No inside finishing, just concrete floors and weather tight. Maybe I'm being naive?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2015, 10:21:03 pm »
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Jen

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 11:10:25 pm »
Yaaaaaaaaay! That is Soo Cool Perry! Really happy for you!

     My only thought is that the concrete pad will be hard on your legs, especially if your going to be spending full days in there ~
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2015, 11:24:36 pm »
Rubber mats where you stand. Need concrete to withstand the weight long term specially when barrels are used to store honey.
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2015, 12:41:25 am »
I have been in construction for about 10 years, started off framing and now I'm primarily a tile setter.  Perry, please feel free to PM me with technical questions along the way. 

25K is a paper thin budget, even for what you're proposing.   Just a  nice 30x40 concrete slab and gravel driveway would run you around 10 to 15K in B.C.  A rafter package for that size would not be cheap either.

For economy, I'd give up on the barn shape and go with a flat roof.  make your building 12 ft high at the front and 8 at the back.  The low pitch will limit your roofing materials somewhat, but it will be very easy to work on.

Also don't forget you'll need footings 3 to 4 feet down depending on your climate.

I don't mean to discourage you at all, but in my experience, you need to about double your budget to get what you described.   Start by narrowing down your plans and then get some estimates from local contractors.

If I was trying to sell this to the planning department, I'd pitch them a detached double garage with main building to follow (at an indefinite future date).
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline Jen

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 01:11:53 am »
"For economy, I'd give up on the barn shape and go with a flat roof.  make your building 12 ft high at the front and 8 at the back.  The low pitch will limit your roofing materials somewhat, but it will be very easy to work on.

     I like this idea due to the amount of snow that can happen in Perry's territory ~ slanted roof
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2015, 01:35:48 am »
A 12 on 12 slop roof wont hold any snow steel on a 5 on 12 wont either and they will make him build for the snow load.
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Offline efmesch

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 01:40:53 am »
My copy of ABC and XYZ of beekeeping (1972 edition) has an article on Building a Honey House.  Maybe some of the ideas presented there are worth incorporating into your planned honey house.
Considering that advances have been made since then, I'd recommend a serious search of the topic with Google as your guide.

Offline apisbees

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2015, 01:56:16 am »
If I was trying to sell this to the planning department, I'd pitch them a detached double garage with main building to follow (at an indefinite future date).
If it is detached it has to be further set back than the main dwelling. I have done work for a guy with the same problem Planning thinks of the road way as the front of your property. the pack of his property overlooked Kal Lake and beach so wanted the house at the back of the lot for the view. But he could not have the garage in the front yard close to the road. The garage needed to be behind the house or attached to the house if it extended in front of the house. The solution was a 80` covered walkway from the house to the garage.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2015, 06:53:45 am »
Some great suggestions so far.  :)
One of the catches to the planning department is that they will not allow a garage or shop or anything built on the property until there is a dwelling on it first. I am guessing they were stung too many times over the years by folks building garages and then never building the dwelling to get around the regs.
With the snow we get I would avoid anything low slope as far as roofing goes.
I know I'm trying to do this on a shoestring, but I have to keep in mind the debt versus the time left to repay. I'm 57, and in theory I can go until I'm 70+ if the set up makes things easier.
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2015, 08:29:27 am »
@Perry:

Go until you're 70 my butt.  You can't live your life based on mortuary tables.  You will go until you can't go.  That times comes at the Lord's convenience and not ours.  I'm 76 years old and just took out a 30 year mortgage, and no, I don't intend to drag that last monthly payment to the local bank at 106 years of age.  I intend to pay it off in a couple of years, and your honey house will also be paid of sooner than you think.

Bear in mind that inflation will make your honey house less expensive as the years pass.  Most building double in cost every decade.  The honey house you build today for 50 grand will cost you 100 grand in ten years.  This project will enhance the value of your property, and fifty grand will cost you about 250 bucks a month as opposed half that for your original thoughts of spending 25 K for the house.  Don't cut back to the point that you will not be happy with the finished product.  You don't want to say to yourself, "Gee, I wish I had spent a bit more and got it the way I wanted it."

Good luck my friend.

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2015, 09:07:08 am »
I would disagree with one idea. No honey house should be without drive in ability. A garage door for a fork lift to enter, or a quick entrance with a pickup in a pouring rain. You think carrying supers is bad, wait until you start carrying 600 lb. drums out and loading them.


One of the catches to the planning department is that they will not allow a garage or shop or anything built on the property until there is a dwelling on it first. I am guessing they were stung too many times over the years by folks building garages and then never building the dwelling to get around the regs.

   then submit the plan with a wall where you wont put them and call that space a garage, as part of the "house" you are going to build. you WILL want the door... If they have to inspect and ask where your fire wall is, tell them its going up last, so you can use the garage area for constructing interior walls, cabinets etc... Yes, ONE garage door, take Iddee's word for it!  If you must, make the door JUST large enough for a trctor bucket, or a skid steer.. a large double door you can roll barrels through with a concrete pad outside of it if possible. Pallet jacks roll nicer on concrete.

   The area I use to extract is not that large, but I have plenty of room around my extracting area to put supers, buckets, jars etc, etc, etc...   The one thing that I have quickly found, is that the honey extracting area has also become the canning area, and the wax processing area, NOT to mention making maple syrup...... Room for storage, as you well know, cannot be overlooked. If your certain you are going to USE 1000 square feet, then make it 2000 square feet. It may be too large at first, but you will quickly grow into it. In three years you will be wishing it was larger. You know as well as anyone how crowded things can get with 100 supers stacked up....  it seems to get more crowded with 38 Supers FULL and 38 supers empty and 24 frames in the extractor....

   A drain in the floor is a must have. Here, where I live they allow me to run a drain straight out to daylight/ditch which is PERFECT so that I do not have to worry about plugging up pipes with wax particles. If I had to run them through a septic I would put screens on all the drains and deal with cleaning them every fifteen minutes.... If zoning forbids a drain in the floor, put it in anyhow, and pour conjcrete over it, so you can chip it out later. Drain, yes!  :yes:

Concrete around the outside edges would be perfect, Cinder block a close second.  Water, and a water heater....   Outlets lots of outlets.  Wait.... is this going to become the wood shop too?  Seems I recall someone making boxes and cutting handles outside....
   HEAT would sure be nice to keep the pipes from freezing.. if you cant KEEP it heated, install a frost free faucet and hook your water system to it. that way you can shut off the faucet, and the water will drain back to below the frost level. I have a couple of them, and recommend having it outside the wall, and hooking the hose to a camper connection or similar in the wall itself.  If you ever have to dig up the faucet for service it will save you tearing up concrete.    I have 50 year old faucet's that are still working perfectly, and 5 year old faucet's that need rebuilt......

   I have been looking at building my own honey house. Can you tell?  But Mine will have to serve multiple purposes, including the wood shop, so 3000 square feet will not be excessive.
   You can ALWAYS use more room, but getting more room isnt as easy as HAVING more room.
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2015, 05:36:09 pm »
How expensive is concrete delivered to your building site?  If its reasonable, you could use foam for the walls and pour cement in the void.  The foam is left in place for insulation and for a base for stucco on the outside and for nailing of sheetrock inside.

Added a picture...


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Offline Perry

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Re: Looking for ideas
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2015, 05:47:39 pm »
ICF (intergrated concrete form) construction is catching on up here, but I'm not sure of the costs. I'll look into it though.
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