Oxalic Acid and Nucs

[Jen]

For those of you who use oxalic acid vap, not drip, do you think it is necessary to use 2 scoops of oxalic acid for a 5 frame nuc? I mean, there is not that much room in a nuc and much fewer bees...

[tedh]

I used 1 scoop for our double deep five frame nucs, 10 frames per nuc.  If that makes sense.  For a five frame medium nuc I'd probably use a half scoop.  But then I'm not all that bright!!!  Ted

[Jen]

Ted, hmmm that's curious, because the instructions that came with my vaporizer say to use 2 scoops, of which I have followed with all my big hives. Sans the question of maybe 1 scoop for nucs. Let's see what some others may say

And Hey! Would You Stop Saying That! You've Got To Have Some Noodles Up In The Top Floor Or You Wouldn't Have Made This Far In Life! Got It? Don't Make Me Reach Thru The Screen And Give Your Nose A Good Honkin'

 ~~~ 

[Perry]

I don't know if I would even bother. Is there that many mites on only 5 frames of bees, remembering that oxalic doesn't work on capped brood?. Have you done a count on the nuc? 2 grams for 5 frames seems excessive to me.

[tedh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Joking aside, I'm good with my wife being the smart one.  She truely is the best part of me.  Besides, I am kinda strong.  I do get your point though.

My understanding of the OAV is 1 scoop per deep.  Let's let the gurus jump in.  Ted

[LazyBkpr]

I'm good with my wife being the smart one.  She truely is the best part of me.  Besides, I am kinda strong.

   DITTO there!!!

   Yes, use one scoop for nucs..  as Perry said thats not usually necessary unless you are maintaining those nucs or attempting to overwinter them/ keep them in nucs as opposed to installing them in full size hives.

[Jen]

"unless you are maintaining those nucs or attempting to overwinter them/ keep them in nucs as opposed to installing them in full size hives."

   Yah That! My nucs this year are for banking queens, and I want to try and winter them.

    Thanks, one scoop it is.

Perry, I haven't tested them yet, going to get a sticky board, cut it in half, insert them under the 5 frames in each nuc, wait about 3 daysish and see if there is any mites in them. So, far I only have one hive that just last week exploded into a mite army. That one has been treated.

[capt44]

Use 1 scoop or 1 gram of Oxalic Acid per 10 frame box
I would use 1/2 scoop or so for a 5 frame Nuc

[Jen]

Thanks Capt

[Gypsi]

Good to know, my 4th gen hive is going down to double nuc today. (finally finished taxes)

[capt44]

The suppose to be experts on oxalic acid vapor said before there was an adverse affect on bees  you would have to use 10 grams per 10 frame box.
So that being said I don't ever exceed 3 grams per hive if it had 3 deep boxes.
I've had excellent results using the Oxalic Acid Vapor.
I treat then retreat in 10 days.
I treated in March a day before the State inspected my hives.
June 17th the State inspected again and pulled drone pupa out and no signs of the Varroa Mites in any of my Hives.
My hives have to be inspected every 90 days because I sell Queens out of state.
My health inspection papers said No sign of Varroa Mites.
Yep I'm happy with the results.
Now that being said after 3 years or so will the varroa mites become immune to oxalic acid?

[LazyBkpr]

Capt44
   I have read (Yeah I know) that the mites do not eat the Oxalic crystals, it kills them through penetration of the soft parts of their body, they come into contact with it, it kills them. Those that do not come into contact with it obviously do not die, Mites in capped cells for instance. It takes survival of a specific treatment for something to build resistance to it.....
   As I understand it, there are European countries that have been using OAV for more than fifteen years???  With no obvious resistance...    I think only time will tell.

[riverbee]

good post capn.

i have a question, sparked from your post and scott's reply........what's the longest period of time that anyone here has used OA for mite treatments and also continue to be successful with OA treatment?

[CBT]

You may not get a straight answer here but, I have read on fourms that before it was given OK by FDA many used it to bleach the inside of their hives every year hint hint.

[LazyBkpr]

Yep, used it to bleach the inside of my hives every so often...     Only four years of use, not dedicated use at first because I didnt have the confidence it when I first started.    I used to have a link to an article about its use in Europe, and have searched for it, ot similar information and have not yet had any success...

[riverbee]

"You may not get a straight answer here but, I have read on fourms that before it was given OK by FDA many used it to bleach the inside of their hives every year hint hint. "

want a 'straight' answer cbt, that's why i asked. i don't care about the fda or before it was ok.......just want to know info from those who have used oa treatment and what the success rate has been for them........

[johnt]

You want oxalic acid dihydrate 99.5% pure ebay
A varrox vaporiser or similar
Treatment is only effective in broodless  periods i.e. Winter
2 grams is the amount to use
The oxalic goes straight from a solid to a vapour at about 150'C
The vapor condenses in the hive on the frames and bees as well as varroa
The crystals sit on the hairs on the bees body they also sit on the hairs on the varroa
The bees can just groom them off (they do not eat them)
The varroa has sticky pads on its feet these collect the acid crystals
The varroa cannot groom the crystals from their body
If you put the varroa under a microscope after treatment you will see the crystals on the feet and body
The effective period is about 4 weeks after which a second treatment will mop up survivors
Resistance is unlikely to occur
Here's a graph of varroa drop from my 22 hives from Winter 2008
All the drops from individual hives are stacked on top of one another for easy viewing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4kmkBxg4pS2bE1Cbm1NQnExQmc/view?usp=drivesdk
Hope that link works

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[LazyBkpr]

You want oxalic acid dihydrate 99.5% pure ebay
A varrox vaporiser or similar
Treatment is only effective in broodless  periods i.e. Winter

   WRONG, it is VERY effective all times of the year, provided you are not talking about capped cells.. The Crystals cannot defeat Varroa in cells that are capped. All other mites are severely affected.


2 grams is the amount to use

    ONLY if you have two deeps or three mediums to treat. if you have more or less than that then the amount needs to be adjusted to suit.


The oxalic goes straight from a solid to a vapour at about 150'C
The vapor condenses in the hive on the frames and bees as well as varroa
The crystals sit on the hairs on the bees body they also sit on the hairs on the varroa
The bees can just groom them off (they do not eat them)
The varroa has sticky pads on its feet these collect the acid crystals
The varroa cannot groom the crystals from their body
If you put the varroa under a microscope after treatment you will see the crystals on the feet and body
The effective period is about 4 weeks after which a second treatment will mop up survivors
Resistance is unlikely to occur
Here's a graph of varroa drop from my 22 hives from Winter 2008
All the drops from individual hives are stacked on top of one another for easy viewing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4kmkBxg4pS2bE1Cbm1NQnExQmc/view?usp=drivesdk
Hope that link works

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[johnt]

Sussex university have done research recently and their recommended dose is 2.25g for a single brood box
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi/sussexplan/varroamites
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi/documents/pamphlet-sublimationtreatmentoxalicacid-a4-1page-2016.pdf
Hope those links work ok

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[Gypsi]

my big hive I know the dosage for.  How about my double nuc hives?  I have a couple of small ones I may merge, one of the groups of bees came in with DWV (from a cutout)