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Author Topic: honey production  (Read 13908 times)

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Offline Jen

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Re: honey production
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 10:43:08 pm »
Well That Sound Soo Much More Reasonable!

Ya sure don't want to get my duff up about being cruel to any females!  :) 8)
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: honey production
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2014, 08:50:45 am »
Quote from: iddee on January 14, 2014, 10:32:30 pm
Let's confuse you a bit more. :D

If you don't want them to swarm, take 2 or 3 frames of brood and the queen and put them in another box. Shake the bees from another couple frames. Move them away. The queen and many bees are gone, so they think they have swarmed. They will go back to normal life, and you will have the "artificial swarm" safely secured in a new hive.

Iddee, when you say "move them away."  How far do you need to move them?  Can it be in the same apiary?  It's a curious mind thing.
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Offline iddee

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Re: honey production
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2014, 09:10:08 am »
They have two goals.
Move to their queen, and return to their original home.
If you move the box with the queen, you will get a balance of each, so yes, 5 feet is fine. If you move the queenless hive, I would say a couple miles for the best balance. If, after 3 weeks or so, when in the same apiary, they are not balanced, switch places in the middle of the day. They will then balance out the population, as the returning foragers will go to their known location.
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Offline Perry

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Re: honey production
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2014, 09:57:25 am »
Iddee is correct (as usual). I might add that once you see swarm preparations of any kind (eggs in queen cups, start of actual swarm cell building), it's too late to stop it. Once they have made up their minds to go, they're going to. No amount of cell knicking will help, in fact it is highly likely you will only leave yourself with a queenless situation
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Offline Jen

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Re: honey production
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2014, 12:34:36 pm »
Perry ""I might add that once you see swarm preparations of any kind (eggs in queen cups, start of actual swarm cell building), it's too late to stop it. Once they have made up their minds to go, they're going to. No amount of cell knicking will help, in fact it is highly likely you will only leave yourself with a queenless situation""

This is exactly what happened to my only hive last spring. Three swarms. Alarming to say the least.
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Offline minz

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Re: honey production
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2014, 03:20:56 pm »
Clipping the wings is not removing them; it is clipping the tip off of one wing.  I have not dug into it too far but from what I recall you remove about a ¼” from which ever wing the year is (even or odd). She can still fly but not very good, and in a circle.  The swarm should be within sight of the hive and not 100’ in the air.  Clip too much and they will replace her. You put them in a hive and there you have new frames drawn out by the following Saturday. This is on my ‘to do list’ not my ‘done it’ list.  I still get buck fever handling my queens.  Perfectly steady hand for 30 drones and grab that queen and start shaking like a leaf!

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Offline efmesch

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Re: honey production
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2014, 04:16:42 pm »
Just to put your mind at ease, clipping a queen's wing is not painful to her.  It's comparable to clipping your finger nails.  There are no nerves in the wing to produce pain.
However, when a queen is clipped, if you've taken off too much, the bees sometimes tend to think of her as maimed and they'll replace her.
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Offline minz

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Re: honey production
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2014, 06:27:10 pm »
It isn’t so much about hurting the queens wing but about crushing her.  I break more stuff without trying to be holding a little bug in my hand that is the future of my hive.  It should come over time.   
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Offline tecumseh

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Re: honey production
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2014, 06:57:57 pm »
in the past I have not regularly clipped queens.  going forward this is something I hope to do a bit more.

as minz states you do not remove the entire wing < this taken a bit too far I SUSPECT can lead to superscedure since the workers may view the queen as being damaged or flawed... same goes for watching how a new queen moves over the face of a frame < if she even appears to be in anyway lame the worker can replace such a queen.  when clipping queens I like to remove only the very back edge of one wing.  learning to catch queens and having some experience in holding a queen is the hardest part of this process.  much like grafting you do getter better with PRACTICE.  a lot of queen rearing folks will mark and clip a queen at the same time typically adding a dollar for each part of this process.
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: honey production
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2014, 11:11:16 pm »
Jen: " Minz! Don't take this personal.. okay! cause I'm not fully understood of this issue yet, just going on nature's instinct!

I think swarming is a natural process! If the bees have already gotten it in their heads that they are going to swarm... then that's exactly what they are going to do! If you catch the swarm - Hallelujah! if not, then they will set up housekeeping somewhere else."

Petr:   You're right that swarming is a natural process and not harmful (except to the people who end up having to pay an exterminator to get bees out of their walls).  feral bees select tree cavities roughly the volume of a medium lang box.  they get crowded quickly and swarm several times a year.    This goes hand in hand with their prime directive: propagate the species.     The aim of most bee keepers is to produce honey, so we re-direct the hive's energies from producing swarms to producing surplus stores.   This is done by keeping young queens and preventing crowding in the hive.   Preventing swarming is an important part of honey production.  The swarm not only depletes the work force, but also leaves with a lot of the honey in the hive.
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Offline efmesch

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Re: honey production
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 02:46:52 am »
Quote from: tecumseh on January 29, 2014, 06:57:57 pm
...... learning to catch queens and having some experience in holding a queen is the hardest part of this process.  much like grafting you do getter better with PRACTICE.
A very safe and secure way to get this practice is by honing your skills with drones.  True, they are shorter of body and wings, but they give you the opportunity to get the feel of holding a bee in your hand, manipulating its positioning and doing the actual clipping----and just think,  no risk of getting stung.  8)
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: honey production
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2014, 10:41:53 pm »
Quote from: efmesch on January 30, 2014, 02:46:52 am
Quote from: tecumseh on January 29, 2014, 06:57:57 pm
...... learning to catch queens and having some experience in holding a queen is the hardest part of this process.  much like grafting you do getter better with PRACTICE.
A very safe and secure way to get this practice is by honing your skills with drones.  True, they are shorter of body and wings, but they give you the opportunity to get the feel of holding a bee in your hand, manipulating its positioning and doing the actual clipping----and just think,  no risk of getting stung.  8)

   Yes!!  THis is exactly what I did, was told to do to prepare for handling queens. I even MARKED drones to practice marking the queen..  I am not exactly sure about the testers paint but the drones seemed to deal with it......  at least the ones I didnt mangle with my beat up hands.
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Offline minz

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Re: honey production
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 11:36:43 pm »
Yup, that’s what I said on #25, perfectly steady on all the drones, buck fever as soon as I pick up the queen.  If anything I drop them trying not to hold them so tight.

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Offline riverbee

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Re: honey production
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 10:27:24 am »
minz, that's funny......oops a little red paint elsewhere?....... :D
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: honey production
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 11:05:03 am »
Nice :)

   Hers the queen!   oops, nope.. Oh, there she...., nope, AHA!... sigh......
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Offline Crofter

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Re: honey production
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 02:54:42 pm »
Quote from: LazyBkpr on January 31, 2014, 11:05:03 am
Nice :)

   Hers the queen!   oops, nope.. Oh, there she...., nope, AHA!... sigh......

For sure dont use the current years color! Even the wrong color popping up when concentrating on finding a queen, throws you off your game.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: honey production
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 04:47:53 pm »
"For sure dont use the current years color! Even the wrong color popping up when concentrating on finding a queen, throws you off your game."

and don't forget, then there are times when the bees have completely cleaned the paint off the queen....... :D
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Offline iddee

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Re: honey production
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2014, 06:56:30 pm »
And the original post was??
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Offline minz

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Re: honey production
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2014, 07:02:25 pm »
It was about how a pro makes honey.  I got off on the commercial guy I talked to and how they do it.  Then down the old rabbit hole with ADD leading the way.  Look! Something shinny!
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Offline Edward

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Re: honey production
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2014, 07:07:07 pm »
Quote from: riverbee on January 31, 2014, 04:47:53 pm
and don't forget, then there are times when the bees have completely cleaned the paint off the queen......

This is also why some large scale beekeepers and breeders nip one wing.

They can look at a Queen if she has her wing nipped she is the Queen that he put in the hive, if not they know that the hive has a new Queen of unknown gene pool.


mvh Edward  :P
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