potential queen problem? advice?

[neillsayers]

Hi everyone,

Did a thorough inspection 9 days ago and am still mulling what to do next.
I found the hive to be strong population-wise with ample stores to get through winter, hopefully. However, I saw no eggs or capped brood.
There is 2 swarm cells capped and 1 open. Also, 2 emergency cells- 1 capped and the other appeared to have emerged.
I saw some drones but no queen. Following the law of "when in doubt do nothing" I have left it be. I intend to inspect soon in hopes that the emergency queen is out breeding and I will find some eggs. Or best case, the queen hid from me and is in a laying pause due to winter preparations.
This is a first year package of Russian/carnie/feral stock.

I would appreciate any advice.
Neill

[apisbees]

your options may depend on what other resources you have available to you. Do you have more than 1 hive? As this will determine whether you have anything to combine it with. A New mated queen should start laying after her mating flights even if it is only a small patch. late fall matings have a poorer success than matings in late spring and early summer.

[neillsayers]

Thanks Apis,

I have another hive that is strong and queenright. What is next depends on the next inspection. I'm thinking if I find eggs and brood I'll leave it until spring. If I find she is not laying well at that time I'll cull her and requeen. If still no queen, I'll combine before winter. Sound reasonable?

[apisbees]

If you can find a queen this late in the year. Start looking now where I am it would be a no queens available.

[capt44]

I don't have any queens available and don't know where to get any in Arkansas.

[neillsayers]

If you can find a queen this late in the year. Start looking now where I am it would be a no queens available.

What I was thinking is to requeen the poorly laying emergency queen in the spring. If there is no brood or queen then I'll combine to get them through winter.

[Les]

Neill, your situation sounds similar to mine, except I found my queen dead.  I am a newbee so I sought advice from my mentor.  One thing he did inform me of if a hatched queen does not mate in a few weeks she never will.  I don't know about down your way but the chances of a queen getting mated in NY was slim to none because my drone population was nil.  They drove them out weeks ago and have been pulling out any drone larva.  My decision was to do a newspaper combine of my queenless hive and my queen right hive.  I picked out the frames that were packed with honey and pollen from the queenless hive, made one deep and placed it on top of the queen right hive.  Thank goodness, I had opted to start with two hives.  Good luck!

[neillsayers]

Btw

Thanks Capn

[neillsayers]

Thanks Les,

Looks like that may be my only option. It has been unseasonably warm here and I did see a few drones in both hives, though I have observed them evicting the little guys. If the emergency queen gets bred at all I hope she will hold the hive together until spring when I can arrange a good replacement. If not, a newspaper combine would make for a very strong hive in the spring and probably a strong split or two. This beekeeping business is all about optimism isn't it?

[riverbee]

neil, i would go with apis advice....he is right on about late fall matings, and also emergency queens.  (they are not fed well so wind up as duds and/or not mated properly).  i wouldn't count on the emergency queen working out? it's sort of a crap shoot this late in the season.   imho i would combine.  it would make for a strong hive as you said for a divide/s in spring.

i know we have all heard this before, but it is true, take your losses in the fall............so neil what i am saying 'salvage' or 'save a loss', and make a stronger hive vs the possibility of losing that hive altogether.........good luck!

keep us posted!

[neillsayers]

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice. The weather tomorrow will not be conducive to get into the hive but I plan to do so as soon as possible. This time I will do a careful frame by frame inspection, moving each frame into an empty box. If I don't find my old queen or a good laying pattern I'll just bite the bullet and do a newspaper combine.

Again thanks,

Neill

[neillsayers]

Update: I posted this info in another post but is on this topic. I did a very thorough inspection of the hive. Went through every comb with a magnifying glass and found.
2 hive beetle larva-squished
no eggs
no open brood
some capped brood
The original queen cells were gone or torn open
My queen is totally gone but I found a pretty little (emergency?)queen which I culled.
Lots or nectar and capped honey
Heavy bee population.

If the weather allows I will combine with my other hive tomorrow and hope for the best.
No idea what happened to my queen but I guess I have to cut my losses.

Thanks for all the input
Neill

[neillsayers]

Well, the deed is done. Weather is really not good for it-drizzly, but the bees stayed calm. Hopefully I saved most of them. They have lots of stores for winter. I'll inspect in a week and try to combine resources to delete a box. I hope this turns out to be a valuable lesson. I certainly will not forget this.

[Bakersdozen]

I hope this turns out to be a valuable lesson. I certainly will not forget this.

Then it wasn't a total loss. 

[neillsayers]

thanks B12

[riverbee]

neil, you made the best decision and like bakers said not a total loss, it is how we learn!  from your description of the small queen, best decision made to combine.....the small pretty queen; either not fed well, not mated (and slim chance to get mated this late in the season) and/or both. that hive would most likely not have had a chance. now those bees have a chance!  will be looking for an update!

[CBT]

I found a hive balling a queen out on the landing board yesterday and put her in a cage. I think she was a virgin that failed to mate. No drones around here now. Had no place for her so added her to the old queens jar of alcohol.

[neillsayers]

Been racking my brain trying to deconstruct what could have happened and when. In the two weeks prior I was gone every day working on my daughter's cabin I'm building for her. I was working long hours and pretty much ignored the hives. It is possible the queen swarmed and what I found was the leftover colony. I really liked that hive best because it was always ahead of the other hive in every way. That should have been my clue because they where running out of room.

Well like I said, lesson learned.

Thanks to everyone for the advice at a time I really needed it.

[neillsayers]

Update:

It appears the combine went pretty well. Next day, found about a dozen dead bees on the landing board but all is calm now and girls are hard at gathering last of aster/goldenrod pollen and nectar before the weather goes south.