Author Topic: Wood frames and foundation (Read 17274 times)

Jen · « **on:** January 07, 2014, 12:13:39 pm »

I'm shopping for 10 or more new wooden frames and wax foundation. Now is a good time for me to switch out some plastic frames with wood. Would be a good idea to get this done this month of January on a warm day. I have a 10 frame Langstroth

I have heard complaints from beeks that some combinations of wood and wax foundation don't hold up in the extractor.

I'm finding:

Grooved top frames
Wedge top frames

4 3/4 thin surplus, 4 /18 surplus, 3 7/8 surplus, 5 5/8 cut comb

Then there is crimped wire foundation

Which would be the best combination for me, I will probably have only two hives, three at the most.

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:18:58 pm »

For the extractor, use crimp wired wax with hooks, wedge top and slotted bottom frames. Crosswire the frames, install the wax, and embed the cross wires.

Opened a whole new set of questions, didn't I?

robo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:20:31 pm »

Quote from: jaybird on January 07, 2014, 12:13:39 pm

Which would be the best combination for me, I will probably have only two hives, three at the most.

Wedge top frames with crimped wire foundation with hooks. Embed cross wires and you will have no issues extracting.

Check out my videos on frames and frame assembly for all the details -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/frames-and-frame-assembly/

Perry · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:23:54 pm »

OK, I understand your location is Cali.
I would not be in a particular hurry to start swapping out frames in January or even February and even March. I would not bother swapping out any frames until you are certain you have a flow starting.
If you are sticking to wax foundation, you want wedged top bars, or split bottom bars. Depending on the size of supers and frames you want to use for the collection of honey, or if you want to try comb honey, all these things will dictate what kind of foundation to buy.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2014, 01:39:20 pm »

Jaybird you are becoming what i call a natural beekeeper, giving the bees material that is natural to them like wood frames and bees wax. I like working in the shop putting wax in the wood frames, making new hives and cleaning and repairing old hives and supers, the smell is heavenly

. I make my frames like iddee, i prefer the slotted bottom bars over the split also, beekeeping is alot like farming, give the bees what they need and like and they will take care of you, give the soil and land what it needs and it will take care of you. Plastic works for the beekeeper that is short on time, but not so well for the bees

, to me putting plastic in hives is like going to visit friends who have plastic covers on there furniture and you feel like your going to side out on the floor, i don't stay long, and the bees probably feel the same about plastic frames, one reason for CCD.

. Jack

PS. Now be nice

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2014, 02:27:12 pm »

I have one hive two deeps high. I'll put the top brood frame exchange aside and go for the bottom brood Deep. The bottom deep is also plastic frames that I want to switch out to wood with wax frames. These frames will not go into the extractor.

What would be a good wood frame and wax foundation combination for a brood box?

robo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2014, 02:32:53 pm »

Wedge top bars with crimped wire. Even if you don't plan on extracting, you don't want the wax to sag.

Sent from my YP-G70 using Tapatalk 2

tecumseh · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2014, 09:48:48 pm »

a snip...
4 3/4 thin surplus, 4 /18 surplus, 3 7/8 surplus, 5 5/8 cut comb

tecumseh..
unless you are awfully awfully good or awfully awfully lucky NONE OF THE ABOVE will withstand an extractor.

wood groove top bars and groove bottom bars combined with platicell foundation (I myself add a bit of my own wax to these) are almost impossible to destroy in an extractor.

wood groove top bars and grooved bottom bar with ripple wired foundation and at least one metal support wire will withstand the force in almost any kind of extractor. most folks (novice at least) do not extract deeps but if you need to go that way you just need to add more horizontal support wires. with plain three ply foundation these can be very robust in an extractor but you do need to add more support wires and expect at least when the wax is in it first year that some 'blow outs' will invariable occur.

in starting out it seem to me that bees will pull or draw (that is turn the flat foundation into comb) much more quickly when they have either plain foundation or ripple wired foundation vs the plasticell (and definitely more so if you do not add the extra wax).

iddee · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2014, 10:43:44 pm »

I do exactly the same for brood as I do for supers. I may use them in either place.

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2014, 11:03:34 pm »

Iddee, I like that idea. Reduces unneccessary confusion

Jen · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2014, 11:35:19 pm »

Robo- Very Good Vids! I have to watch them again. But it definately helping with what I don't want. Thanks for your help. Jen

rodmaker · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2014, 10:12:42 am »

What is the best time of year to install wax foundation? Or better what is the best temperature to work with it? I am in the process of changing over from plastic ell to wired wax in my brood boxes to help with queen rearing.

Crofter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2014, 11:29:26 am »

Just before you give it to the bees is the best time. After you "hang" foundation, frames must remain upright or the wax will sag between wires especially if it is hot. The wax also loses a lot of its aroma when exposed to light and air circulation. At the very least, the frames with installed foundation will have to be put into hive bodies and stacked.

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2014, 12:40:56 pm »

rod- I'm doing the same thing. Except I'm not rearing queens. I just want to switch from plastic to natural wood and wax. FYI I live in upper northern california, and was told not to order the wired wax this time of year because the cold weather could fracture the wax foundation. And it is not returnable. Our closest bee supplier is Glory Bee, about 3 hours away. Thinking hubby and I will make a day trip.

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2014, 12:50:14 pm »

Hey Crofter

"Just before you give it to the bees is the best time. After you "hang" foundation, frames must remain upright or the wax will sag between wires especially if it is hot. The wax also loses a lot of its aroma when exposed to light and air circulation. At the very least, the frames with installed foundation will have to be put into hive bodies and stacked."

Stacked?

So? Even if we horizonally or crosswire the wired foundation? they need to stay upright?

Even if we are switching out the plastic to wood/wax in the winter?

Crofter · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:40:26 pm »

I would say that upright is the safest. Would depend on temperature. I have seen them sagged between wires but cant remember how hot they got.

Jen · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:53:09 pm »

Mkay, and it would be a good idea to just get in the habit of that ~ Thanks

rodmaker · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2014, 05:40:24 pm »

Jay i ordered 25 lbs and it was delivered the twenty second of december very little damage only two sheets had broken corners but was still useable that was crimped wire for deeps i will wait for warmer weather to order wax for mediums as it will be thin surplus. I buy my material from Mann Lake free shipping and they package everything very well. Dadant is only about thirty miles away from me in fresno but ilike manlike better had a problem with two medium boxes and they sent me two replacements without my asking for them.

Crofter · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2014, 07:33:31 pm »

Rodmaker, my orders to Mann Lake go to the Minnesota headquarters, I have to sign a waiver for wax damage in cold weather. I think you and Jabird would be dealing with the California Store. Did they ask for the waiver?

Moots · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2014, 07:47:40 pm »

Quote from: Crofter on January 10, 2014, 07:33:31 pm

Rodmaker, my orders to Mann Lake go to the Minnesota headquarters, I have to sign a waiver for wax damage in cold weather. I think you and Jabird would be dealing with the California Store. Did they ask for the waiver?

Crofter,
Not sure I'd do that...The first foundation I ever ordered was from Kelley Bees and a cold snap hit somewhere during the shipping process. I'd say 75 of the 100 sheets were damaged, probably over half heavily. Kelley's made good on it and had UPS pick it up.

Since it was the first time I had bought Wax foundation, I "assumed" a certain amount of minor damage was the norm. I was shocked to see how every time I've ordered it since, it arrives in pristine shape. I think Kelley's policy is they just won't ship it if they feel it's too good, but should things go wrong, they stand by it. Is the Mann Lake waiver SOP, are is it a case where they advising that it shouldn't be shipped, but you REALLY want it now?

Personally, I'd wait...