Beekeepers are so generous !!

[Jen]

Thanks Iddee

[Slowmodem]

Empty air space at the top is bad. Starvation is worse. Do what you have to, but limit the bad as much as feasible.

I've been thinking about that.  My first winter, I did the Mountain Camp feeding method with sugar,and I had a deep box on top (that was all I had).  But I had newspaper down on the frames (with a little hole for the bees to come and go from the cluster to the sugar).  Perhaps it was the newspaper that acted like a top and kept the heat in?

[iddee]

That was part of it, but I don't think you had sub zero temps that winter in east Tennessee, either.

[tecumseh]

so do I understand properly that some folks are using standard outer covers with no inner cover?  that must be interesting.  :'(

migratory covers do not require inner covers but in the hottest months of the year these may have to be cracked just a bit to provide some ventilation.... a standard shim from the hardware store or even a small stick (in some places referred to as 'tecumseh stick' < patent pending of course) will do the trick here without the addition of an inner cover.  a migratory cover with a hole in the top is a access spot for some kind of feeder bottle.

[Perry]

The one thing about migratory covers that puzzles me up here anyway, is how long do they last? Wooden tops up here would need fairly constant attention/maintenance with the weather extremes we endure.

[Gary]

Jaybird,
The Dandant website and catalog recommend a 1 3/4 shim for the winter patties they sell. The shim includes two cross bars which I find makes them more stable. They sell them but they are very easy to make. I included a 1/2 in hole in the lower edge of one side to allow ventilation and an upper entrance. I can get 4 patties in and leave space so that the inner cover vent is open. One of the patties has to overlap to make that happen but the bees can easily get around them. The patties would not fit very well under an inner cover. I tried but too tight. Also I found that when I flipped the inner cover over, the propolis on the underside now sticks to the telescoping cover and both come off at the same time.

[DLMKA]

The one thing about migratory covers that puzzles me up here anyway, is how long do they last? Wooden tops up here would need fairly constant attention/maintenance with the weather extremes we endure.

I have some tops made out of 3/4" exterior sheathing. Some I have put a little aluminum flashing over the top, others are just paint. I don't expect the painted ones to last more than 5 years but it's still pretty darn cheap.

[Jen]

Gary- so I would put the shim on the hive, then put the inner cover on the shim, then put the hive lid on? right?

And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning

[riverbee]

"Lazy- don't know how thick the winter patties are yet. Waiting to get them in the mail from B&B Honey Farm."

jen, they are thin and made to fit underneath the deep side of a standard inner cover, and should fit under the cover lazy made you. lazy what was the depth/s of the cover you made jen?

"And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning"

there is a deep side and a thinner side to an inner cover, and either notch up, or notch down, notch down is the deeper side.  all of my inner covers are set on my hives notch down, others use theirs notch up.

[Slowmodem]

Gary- so I would put the shim on the hive, then put the inner cover on the shim, then put the hive lid on? right?

And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning

If you look at this picture from Brushy Mountain, there is writing on the top and the notched side goes up.  The red writing says "THIS SIDE UP".

[LazyBkpr]

Yep, Notch generally goes up, the other side is slightly shallower than the notch side. You can put the notch side down for ventilation and or upper entrance, just make sure to slide the outer/telescoping cover forward to open the notch/vent...   If the patties are thin you may get away fine flipping the notch down.
   If your using the shim, it goes UNDER the inner cover, then the tele cover goes over it all.

   If you leave the notch side down in good/warm weather they MAY build burr comb under the cover.   Hope that helps!

[riverbee]

thanks lazy for answering........i use my notch side down, always up here,  i do that lazy, as you said for ventilation and exit/entrance, and all my inner covers i have notched out further to about 3 inches.  i don't use the notch side up. 

the patties will fit jen, from b and b honey farms, if you turn lazy's cover notch side down.  then you will not need a shim.

i don't get too much, if any burr comb, doing it this way, (notch side down)  but what i do get is if i don't stay ahead of the bees during the season......them building comb on the underneath side and filling with nectar/honey.......

"if you look at this picture from Brushy Mountain, there is writing on the top and the notched side goes up.  The red writing says "THIS SIDE UP"

who follows instructions??? 
 lol, personal preference and pest problems, ventilation, entrance/exit will help you determine if it goes up or down....

 

[iddee]

Jaydird, buy a box with frames from 3 different companies and you will find different distances between the top of the box and the top of the frames. That makes getting the space right between the inner lid and the frames impossible to tell a person when the boxes are not always the same. You want approx. 1/4 inch between the lid and the top of the frames. Too much and they build burr comb. Too little and they propolize them together so tight I have torn inner lids getting them off.

[Slowmodem]

Jaydird, buy a box with frames from 3 different companies and you will find different distances between the top of the box and the top of the frames. That makes getting the space right between the inner lid and the frames impossible to tell a person when the boxes are not always the same. You want approx. 1/4 inch between the lid and the top of the frames. Too much and they build burr comb. Too little and they propolize them together so tight I have torn inner lids getting them off.

I think there are some videos on youtube showing comparisons between different suppliers.  There are also some papers written on the subject.  Google it and explore! 

[Jen]

Is this burr comb?

[iddee]

Yes, Ma'am. Or wild comb, when it gets that large.

[LazyBkpr]

It would be considered so.. got an empty frame slot in the hive?

   Bah, Iddee beat me to it.

[Jen]

Thanks Iddee

Lazy, remember me telling you about my 9 frames in my deep? this is what happened. I like to try and do an inspection once a month in the summer. The first inspection I did with this hive, I lifted the lid..... Whaaaaat The.....(&*(()%$.

Followed my nonsense, and pulled it off.

[LazyBkpr]

Yep     probably didnt get them spaced evenly and gave them room so they took advantage of it. They sure did a bang up job of getting it going well 

[Jen]

Slow- thanks for the pic ~