Anyone have Carnolian experience?

[Bakersdozen]

I have ordered two packages of Carnolians this year.  I am interested in experiencing the difference.  I have always had Italians.  Does any one have any experience with Carnolians they would like to share?  Tips, thoughts, or regrets?

[tefer2]

We use Carniolan bees in most of our operation here in Michigan.
We feel they winter better in our cooler climate and goofy weather patterns.
Carniolans go into winter with a smaller cluster size and conserve their stores better than Italians.
They are also known for the queen shutting down during times of a nectar dearth.

While they lag behind the Italians in spring buildup, they normally explode when they get to it.
Some keeps have swarming problems with them because of the rapid buildup.
You just need to give them plenty of space and watch for swarm cells when the flow starts.
In other words, have all your frames and boxes ready beforehand.
I don't know who your source is, so dark bees from southern climates may behave different.

[brooksbeefarm]

I have Carnolians, they do good in our climate, unlike Italians they will winter with a smaller cluster, not pron to rob and are easy to get along with. The queens are dark in color that makes them harder to find, and will build up fast in the spring and will swarm, so you have to keep an eye on them. Once they decide to stay home they are good honey producers. One beekeeper in our club requeens every year and has very little to no swarming, i start raising queens in July and re-queen 2 yr. old or older queens and failing/ or no good queens in Sept., i also order a few queens every year just to get new blood in my stock, ordered some Russian queens to make a few hives to put one in each of my outyards to mix my Carnolian (virgin queens) with there drones. Hope this helps, and good luck B12. Jack

[tefer2]

While we haven't bought a package in many years, I'd like to add a few tips for you.
Install them on drawn comb, if you have it.
Add a frame of emerging brood two weeks after you install them.
The last part of this u-tube video explains why!

[Jen]

Hi Baker, I have bought all carnolians the last couple years. They are wonderful gentle peacefull bees, soft caramel color. The first year I was so happy with them that that is all I have purchased.

[pistolpete]

These are my Carnie Mutts.  I've never had any others, I doubt Italians would winter here in Canada.  What I like best about my strain is that they are very peaceful.  I don't have to wear protection of any kind to work them.  (there's always that one crazy one, but 1 out of 30k's not bad)

[apisbees]

Pete the nucs and queens you have gotten from john are the offspring of the BC Bee breeding project that was set up by the min of Agriculture in the early 1980's. The original stock was selected from local beekeepers in the province and ran and tested for desirable traits that the beekeepers in BC were looking for. At the time most of the bees coming into BC where from California and imported as packages and queen were also imported from California also. At the time most of these bees were Italian as they built up quickly. Beekeepers in the southern region overwintered and the bees over wintered well with the mild winters and early spring. beekeepers in the north would gas the bees and replace the colonies in the spring with new packages. John has added other races of bees into the breeding lines including a few Russian queens. But his queens are a mix of races selected for the qualities that they possess rather than their race. As time  evolved and the pests and strains on the bees changed the importance of characteristics selected for has changed.

[pistolpete]

I love these bees.  Whatever John does, it's definitely working.  It's been a few years since I got any bees from him.  I've made at least 20 hives from the original 3 Nucs I got 4 or 5 years ago.  This winter is actually the first time I lost a hive.  And I'm stumped as to why.  it's like they absconded in the fall.  When I opened the hive there were a few dozen bees in an apple sized cluster and no other bees in the hive.  Also there was spotty capped brood in some of the frames.  My guess is this brood got chilled in the fall and never emerged.   It could also be that I they lost their queen the last time I inspected in september.    The hive was full of honey and pollen.

[Ray]

IMO They're all mutts to a certain extent.  That said I'm trying to keep Carnis.
Last year I purchased some Carni Queens from Foley's and they were solid Black. The other "Carni's' have otherwise been closer to heavily black striped. I also purchased 'Russian' Queens from WTKelley that were similarly striped. Some of my 'Carnis' propalise like Caucasians ( from what I've read about Caucasians) and some are almost as friendly as yellow jackets. I have a queen that is pale except for the tip of her tail and her cluster isn't much different from all the other hives.

[brooksbeefarm]

The Caucasians i had many years ago were calm mannered and very good honey producers. I had some Midnight bees around the same time that i really liked and stuck with them because working the caucasians was a real pain becauseof the way they propolised everything together i woul tear frames apart and kill bees trying to inspect them, and that would tick them off. Jack

[Alleyyooper]

When I started expanding we had 3 colonies of Itialians here at home. Then a bee keeper down the road who belonged to our club and had been giving me some of his experinace got sick and went into the hospital. He hired some guys he thought were decent bee keepers to take care of his 80 or so colonies spread over two counties that fall.
By spring he was in no shape to work bees so he sold all his bees by the yard. We bought the bees in a yard where he has 7 colonies.

All were SMR Carnolians. On a warm day in early April we went to take a look at our new bees. I was shocked to say the least when thousands of bees came boiling out of the first hive I opened. to have them come up and say HELLO. Had never experinced that before with my back yard stock.

Kare and I go to the hospital and told Billy about that, Poor man laughed so hard tears were running down his cheeks. Tiil the day he passed away he liked to tell people about my greetings from those carnies.
Billy also told me they were that way because it was like 30 people living in a one room and a bath apartment and that would make any one cranky.

Told me to buy 7 queens form a fellow who used SMR carnies and split every one of those hives. We did that and by June we had about 18 hives and some were still really friendly and would alway greet you with a mass HELLO. found check mite strips in all th ehives those guys never bothered to remove too.
Made nucs with those to redue the population again.
By fall we had 25 colonies all but 2 were carnies and I had learned to like them a lot. When spring rolled around the next year I saw why our club members liked the carnies. Lost every itialian hive yet the carnies did fine. I bought queens for about the next 5 years all carnies and would split the hives every spring. I even bought some supposed to be straight carnies queens. The splits didn't like them at all an we lost most till I made a push in cage and kept the queens in them for almost ten day.

Then I start raiseing my own queens cell punch method. Had a yard were I would set out the mateing nucs and down the road a mile kept a yard of bees who had lived thru several winters with exta drone comb to mate my new hatched queens.
I call them Karnolians as I took kare's name and added it to the nolian as I have fallen in love with them.

   al

[tecumseh]

I have had a small number here and really they are perhaps two weeks behind the Italians.... but do catch up very quickly.  All that I have seen here are black with yellow bands.  This year we will have Sue Cobey here again for a queen rearing school and sometime in the near future I hope to get a couple of II queens from Sue.  She keeps telling me they are a bee bred for the northern climate and I tell her I am more interested in seeing how the mix works out between a carni and my no treatement BWeaver stock.  I like the idea that they half brood rearing which I tend to think could provide them some insurance against varroa.

[Bakersdozen]

I hope to get a couple of II queens from Sue. 

 I like the idea that they half brood rearing which I tend to think could provide them some insurance against varroa.

Thanks for the reply, Tec.  Please elaborate on what II queens are.  Also, what do you mean when you talk about "half brood rearing"?

[tefer2]

Tec, order a year ahead of time. At $550.00 each, how many did you say you wanted?

[Lburou]

...I like the idea that they half brood rearing which I tend to think could provide them some insurance against varroa.

tec, most of the F-1 queens from my best Bweaver queen had palm sized patches of eggs two weeks ago.  Is what I'm seeing in late January's size of brood nests (of these  BW bees) consistent with your bees?  By the time we get F-2 or F-3 queens from the best BW queens, they are relatively gentle and still produce well -they (BW bees) seem to be gentled down lately.  F-3's out of VPQueens Italian Instrumentally Inseminated (II) breeder queen had two frames at that time.