Bee installation question......

[Apis63]

Hi everyone!  Well, my bees came yesterday and I got them into their hives--well, MOST of them.  Here's my problem--I did not get them all out of the delivery box, so I left the box near the hive entrance.  This morning I went out to check on them before I left for school and they are mostly ALL still in the box and they did not look good.  It got cold last night--high 20's, maybe 30.  Can I hope that it gets warm enough today that they liven up and fly in?  What should I do when I get home today?  I really didn't want to open the hive, nor did I think it was warm enough to be messing with it this morning.  Any help will be appreciated!

[apisbees]

The bees will pick up if they warm up before the run out of stored food in their system. this being said I looked at the temps in your area and it doesn't look good for it getting warm enough for the bees to fly. How many bees are you talking about? Under 50 I would not worry about Over 200... How is your hive set up are you using a inner cover? feeding? feed jar over the hole in the inner cover? It is hard when we do not Know what you have and how the hive is set up.
You want to save the bees... Bring them into the house where it is warm once they become more active spray with syrup or brush some on the screen, Once they are fed and active, put them into the hive. The easiest way is to place the package box on top of the inner cover and put a empty super box on top of it. The bees when warm will march out and join the cluster.
if you are feeding over the inner cover hole you will need to place sticks for spacers to allow the bees to go down. When the bees are warmed up they are going to want to fly.

[Apis63]

Thanks so much for your reply, apis.  I am definitely concerned and want to fix this TODAY if I can.  I appreciate the fact that you looked at the temps up here--it has been cold, but we are expecting warmer temperatures (60's) next week.  I have a second deep box on top of the bottom deep with a 2-1/2 gallon bucket of syrup over an inner cover.  Will it be ok for me to go into the hive tonight when I get home from school and prop the syrup bucket up?  I'll do what you suggested with the bees--bring them in the house and spray them, warm them up and try putting them in. Do I put a THIRD deep box on, then?  The bee box won't fit in the second deep with that 2-1/2 gallon bucket in there.  What I'm REALLY hoping is that they will all have found their way in by the time I get home.  I do have an entrance reducer on, as well and I have been second guessing that all day.  I know it's necessary but part of me thinks maybe if the opening to the hive is bigger they will find their way in easier.  I guess if they're too cold to move it doesn't matter HOW big the entrance is, right? 

[apisbees]

yes put an other super and the lid back on. with them warm they will vacate and join the other in a few hours most likely 1/2 hour or less. If they would have been warm they would have made it to the reduced entrance. the bees need the reduced entrance for the first month to 6 weeks. The bee population is not large enough to guard a full open entrence.

[badgerbeekernube66]

Hi apis63, hope everything worked out for you. I did what apis said, put my remaining  bees inside the top deep, package and all. Worked great, I removed the empty packages this afternoon. Question, did you get your bees from Hanson honey farms? Italians or carniolans?
Nice to see another badger state keep here, there are a few of us!

[Apis63]

Hey, Badger! I did get me bees from Hanson's--2 3-lb packages of Italians. I took Apis' advice and put the package right in a third deep box. I'll take it out in the morning before I go to school and it will be what it will be! I'll let you know how it goes!

[Apis63]

Ok, here's another question for you, Apis or Badger or whoever can help me out! I have already seen a mite. There was also a moth in the package. I did not think to get it out before I put the package in the third deep. How do I proceed with preventing this from getting worse? I know I need to get screened bottom boards to start, but what is standard procedure for controlling these pests in a new hive?

[riverbee]

i will chime in, sorry i missed your post right away when you needed help............

apis is right on; and just so everyone knows it is darn butt cold here in wisconnie............ temps well below normal and not conducive to hiving packages and there is no warm up as apis63 said until next week.

apis63, do as apis said, the bees will be alright then, or instead of a medium super, use an extra empty deep box, put the remaining bees in the package box into an extra deep, cover it, they will join the cluster below.

"Bring them into the house where it is warm once they become more active spray with syrup or brush some on the screen, Once they are fed and active, put them into the hive. The easiest way is to place the package box on top of the inner cover and put a empty super box on top of it. The bees when warm will march out and join the cluster. "

[riverbee]

"Ok, here's another question for you, Apis or Badger or whoever can help me out! I have already seen a mite. There was also a moth in the package. I did not think to get it out before I put the package in the third deep. How do I proceed with preventing this from getting worse? I know I need to get screened bottom boards to start, but what is standard procedure for controlling these pests in a new hive?"

apis63, focus on getting your bees hived and strong.......mites; sometimes package bees come with mites...some worse than others.
once your bees are hived and in warmer weather, you can evaluate what the mite population is, and treat as needed later, but not right now..........a moth in the package?

when your bees have been hived, when weather/temps are conducive to opening the hived package, i would say next weekend, after the temp warmup, take a look in there and see what's going on.  i also think the bees will take care of the moth, but to be proactive, check all your frames.

screened bottom boards are not a 'fix' for any pest, and IMHO, you don't need them...........

[apisbees]

Icing sugar shake 1/8 to 1/4 cup on a 3lb package. Oxalic acid drip on the bees along between the top bars. Leaving them be is also an effective means of mite control. 1st the bees will only be drawing worker comb for the first while. 2nd the hive is going through a brood break. If there is high levels the mites will be eager to enter the first cells being capped in in 9 or 10 days time. with them doing this if the infestation rate is high many mites will enter the cells which they will kill the larva also killing the mites in the cell.
I would do the Icing sugar shake. Use a cereal box and and cut a piece big enough to extend under the frames the cluster is on. Smear a coat of Vaseline on it and place a piece of window screen on top and slid it in the hive under the cluster. Dust them with sugar and leave them for 24 to 3 days Pull the sticky cardboard and count the mites. do this before the bees seal any of the brood. You could do it twice once on day 6 and again on day 9, if the mite drop on day 6 was high.

[Apis63]

Thanks for your reply, Riverbee--I did what you said with the deep. Can I go in tomorrow and take the empty package out and get that third box off? Sounds like that's what you did, right Badger? I feel like this was the first of many beekeeping lessons I will learn. Next time I install packaged bees in cool (actually, COLD!) weather, I'm putting the package into the hive right away.
Do you agree with apisbees about the mites getting into the brood cells? Is this something I need to be concerned about or should I just monitor for now.
Apisbees, I am curious about the sugar shake. I will definitely try it. Is it simply a method to monitor the mite population or does it affect the mites in some way--I know nothing, as you can probably tell!
Thank you guys for all of your helpful advice. It really makes me feel more confident about how to handle things. I am SO glad that Zweefer suggested this forum!

[Apis63]

Ok, I think I got it, apisbees! Just watched a great little video on sugar shaking. I am going to try it when the weather warms up a bit. Thanks again!

[apisbees]

Keep track of the days, you want to do it and knock the mites of the bees before the bees start to seal the brood. Sugar doesn't kill the mites but it does knock them down off the bees. Used in conjunction with a screened bottom board or a sticky board with a mat (screen) sitting in top so the mites stick and the bees can walk on the screen and keep out of the sticky stuff.

[riverbee]

"Thanks for your reply, Riverbee--I did what you said with the deep. Can I go in tomorrow and take the empty package out and get that third box off? Sounds like that's what you did, right Badger? I feel like this was the first of many beekeeping lessons I will learn. Next time I install packaged bees in cool (actually, COLD!) weather, I'm putting the package into the hive right away.
Do you agree with apisbees about the mites getting into the brood cells? Is this something I need to be concerned about or should I just monitor for now.
Apisbees, I am curious about the sugar shake. I will definitely try it. Is it simply a method to monitor the mite population or does it affect the mites in some way--"

yes you can go in tomorrow, and take the empty package out and get the third box off, the remaining bees SHOULD be clustered with or joined with the rest of the bees in the bottom box.  i would do it (considering our weather) later in the day, not in the morning; warmer weather tomorrow, but the bees  will probably be happy to join the rest irregardless.............

i can't disagree with apis, cuz he's right about the mites but not sure you would need to treat?

powder sugar shake method, (it's easy and doesn't harm the bees) U of Minn:

Powder Sugar Roll For Varroa Mites on Honey Bees

[apisbees]

What RB posted is used for testing to see what the mite count in the hive is. What I am suggesting is when you use powder sugar over all the top bars that the bees are clustered on as a means of causing the mites to be dislodged and fall to the sticky board. Either from the sugar causing the mites to loose hold or by being dislodged by the bees when the bees are cleaning the sugar off each other.

[Bakersdozen]

This falls under the category of Ask 3 beekeepers the same question and you will get 3 different answers!
My response:  It's too early to do anything about the mites.  I am assuming the queen is still in her cage suspended in the brood box where the bees can get to her to give her food and water.  I don't do anything but leave them alone for 3-4 days.  I then release her, or check to see that they did it, and again I don't go back in for at least a week.  You want them to focus on  accepting her and not interrupt that process.  You can use that time to get a mite control plan. Apisbees suggested sprinkling powered sugar over the top bars and that sounds like the best treatment for now.  The break is brood from being in a package will help to control mite populations. 
Just another opinion...

[iddee]

I agree with B12. It's too cold and too early for that much intrusion. I would get them mingled together and leave them until warmer weather, after they have accepted the queen and had brood. Too many introduced queens are superceded anyway, so I wouldn't do anything to encourage it.

[apisbees]

I do agree with Iddee and baker on letting the queen get accepted and waiting for the weather to warm up.

I would do the Icing sugar shake. Use a cereal box and and cut a piece big enough to extend under the frames the cluster is on. Smear a coat of Vaseline on it and place a piece of window screen on top and slid it in the hive under the cluster. Dust them with sugar and leave them for 24 to 3 days Pull the sticky cardboard and count the mites. do this before the bees seal any of the brood. You could do it twice once on day 6 and again on day 9, if the mite drop on day 6 was high.

Keep track of the days, you want to do it and knock the mites off the bees before the bees start to seal the brood. Sugar doesn't kill the mites but it does knock them down off the bees. Used in conjunction with a screened bottom board or a sticky board with a mat (screen) sitting in top so the mites stick and the bees can walk on the screen and keep out of the sticky stuff.

Next week the weather is forecast to warm up in Wisconsin and thanks backer for making it clearer to wait and allow the queen to get introduced and laying before treating. By  keeping track of the days and timing the treatment just before the first brood is sealed  you will get the best treatment results.
Letting the bees use the natural brood break as a control method does work If the mite population is high enough to over populate the first of the cells being sealed. If it is a low infestation, or their are enough available cells of brood being capped, and the mites do not kill the host brood by over populating the brood cells. It may not be as successful as you hoped. 

[badgerbeekernube66]

Yep, that's what I did apis63.
This is my second year with bees apis so some of your questions are far above my level of knowledge, however you have found a good resource here, listen too what these folks have to say and apply the info according to how it looks to you. Research everything!
If you need physical assistance my wife  and I are more than happy to help, we can't be to far apart.
 Good luck, and remember the bees know better than we do.

[riverbee]

i want to clarify an earlier post i made for beginning beeks, sometimes we are not thinking the big picture or perhaps don't convey our thoughts properly to a post question........

in my opinion package bees do not typically need treatment and shouldn't be treated until they are established (and for me i don't treat, so i would have to have good reason to warrant any treatment for package bees ie late summer going into fall months only after determining the mite load).

apisbees was suggesting how to utilize powdered sugar on the top frames to knock the mites down..........his post is right on.......
i also posted how to do a powdered sugar roll...........

given that this is a package, i would agree with all on leaving the package alone, let them establish.  never mind the weather, i would say the same! leave them alone!  and yes it's colder than beejeebers  here in wisconsin, even more reason to let the bees alone and only do what we  need.....and that would be FEED if they need it.

package bees have many challenges, and as iddee mentioned, there is a high probability that the queen will be superceded.

in time, if the mite situation is concerning, do as apis said or try the powdered sugar shake testing later on to determine whether or not some treatment would be required........

sorry i wasn't paying attention the first time around.  hope this helps and clarifies what i posted earlier.