My first cut-out

[Wandering Man]

A friend of a friend had bees in their soffit. I agreed to help remove them, but let them know I didn't want another hive to be responsible for. My friend had already said he was thinking about beekeeping, and so agreed to take the hive.

We opened the house and pulled out the comb.

I'd built a bee vacuum and it really came in handy. It beat up the bees more than I wished. I'll need to modify the hose if I ever do this again.

My friend got a thrill out of doing this. He'd started reading about bees just this week. It was fun watching him teach the home owners about bees.

The bees were very gentle, considering that we were destroying their home. The only casualty was the homeowners dog. The wife had suited up in my wife's suit and was out there helping us.

The dog followed her out and the bees attacked. She ended up at the vet, a victim of anaphylactic shock. Looks like she'll be OK.

There were some bees way in the back that I couldn't get to with the vacuum, but I got all of the comb.

We rubber banded five frames of comb an put them in a new deep. Then we put the hive on a ladder under the old nest in the house, and left around noon.

I went back this evening to check on things. The bees are calm.  A lot of bees are doing orientation flights around the front entrance of the new hive.

There are still some bees hanging around the old location. I'm not sure if I got the queen, but the majority of the bees seem to be making a new home in the hive.

The plan is to give them one more day in the current location and then move them early Sunday morning.

The friend wants to power wash the space where the bees were to clean out residual comb.

My question is, if we left the queen, will she make her way into the new hive to join the rest of the bees and her brood?

Or will she stay put and draw the bees back to her?

[neillsayers]

I would think if the queen was still in the soffit the rest of the colony would have gone to her. Looking forward to answers from those more experienced.

[Jen]

That's what I'm thinking as well Neil. Bee's will return and cover the queen. And, if that is the case, they may have intentions of rebuilding the nest there. Or, they may take her and get the heck out of their destroyed home. 

[Wandering Man]

That was my thought, that the queen takes precedence over brood.

Since the bees were doing orientation flights this evening, then we perhaps we managed to capture the queen.

And there weren't very many bees left in the old cut-out.  I don't think they would wait until morning to swarm her.

Or, its "the queen is dead!  Long live the queen!"  and they'll start making a new queen.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all ends.

[Jen]

I have done one cut out, it was a miserable failure    I won't go into the gorey details. But I do remember not finding the queen while in the process of removing the large wax paddles in the wall. Cut outs can be soo messy and sticky and the collateral damage huge. Hoping your queen is snug with her helpers and all is well 

[LazyBkpr]

With a bee vac, its not so much about the hose, as it is about the suction.   You want enough suction to pull them in..  barely..   If you EVER think.. this is going smooth and fast!  You have too much suction.   When you are sucking in bees, and think.. OMG this is going to take forever, your getting closer to the right amount of suction!

[Wandering Man]

The guy who wanted the bees kept trying to "fix" my vacuum, no matter how many times I told him I didn't want more suction.

So yes, it may have pulled them in a bit too hard. I'll post a few pics later today, if I can.

[Wandering Man]

Here are some of the photos.

[apisbees]

Moving the brood the bees will stay with the brood and if the queen in not in the hive will make an emergency queen if there are eggs or young larva. If there is still a mas of bees in the original location, the queen may be there or the hive is further away than the bees can fan the pheromones of their Nasonov gland to attract the rest of the bees into the hive. there always seems to be a few bees that are loyal to the original location and are reluctant to leave.

[Jen]

Wman, that last pic is a doozy! That is one busy queen

[Wandering Man]

Moving the brood the bees will stay with the brood and if the queen in not in the hive will make an emergency queen if there are eggs or young larva. If there is still a mas of bees in the original location, the queen may be there or the hive is further away than the bees can fan the pheromones of their Nasonov gland to attract the rest of the bees into the hive. there always seems to be a few bees that are loyal to the original location and are reluctant to leave.

The home owner posted a video this morning on Facebook with the message that bees are flying in and out of the hive as well as back to the house.  But, there are no big balls of bees in the house, the bees there are scattered.

The video quality isn't great, but it looks like bees are doing orientation flights around the entrance, and there seem to be some that are heading out to forage.

[Wandering Man]

Wman, that last pic is a doozy! That is one busy queen

I think they are going to be good bees.  I came away with only a few stingers in my glove.  The only aggression we saw as toward the dog.  The dog is doing better this morning and has her appetite back.

[Lburou]

Congratulations on your first take out, it must have been exciting to do this for the first time on such a classically organized colony of honey bees. 

JP the  beeman, I think, in one of his videos mentioned leaving a small piece of comb in its original position if you don't positively identify the queen during the take out.  When you come back later, there is a good chance she will be on that piece of (brood) comb if you didn't get her in with the bees in their new hive.

FWIW, let the neighborhood bees rob the remaining honey from the location of the original colony for 48 hours, and then do whatever you want to clean & close the soffit again.

[Wandering Man]

I wish we had done that.

It looks like she escaped back beyond our reach.

We were hoping to avoid pulling down the ceiling to a sauna. But that's going to be our next move.  The husband is kind of glad, since he was looking for an excuse to tear it down, but his wife wasn't quite ready.

It was an exciting adventure. I just wish I had got them all to begin with.

The good news is my friend is on the verge of becoming a beek and the homeowners have a new respect for and appreciation of bees.

[Wandering Man]

Well, here's the end story to this great adventure.

My friend called and was excited. He said his dad called. The neighbor said that Freind's hive of bees was in his tree. But it couldn't be Friend's bees because the swarm was too big.  He was going to catch the swarm the next day after we finished up at the house.

My friend and I went back to the house after two days to rip out more boards and dig back to where the last cluster of bees had been.  As I had expected, those bees were gone.

While at the house talking to the homeowner, my friend's father called. The fire ants had taken the hive. All of the bees were gone.

Friend headed out to check on the swarm. I asked about the swarm later to see if he caught it. No, the swarm was 40 feet up in a tree. I didn't think trees grew that tall in South Texas.

I asked what he was going to do now? At this point he owns two hives and no bees. Was he going to hope for another swarm, or buy a package?

He gave the best response: "learn more."

Whew!

I learned a lot. We both learned a lot. I'm sorry this hive gave its life for our education. It was exciting on the first day. Then disappointing and frustrating. I suspect the swarm in the neighbor's tree were Freind's bees. Which I think would mean we had captured the queen.

Will I ever attempt another cut out? I'm not sure. If I do, I won't stop in the middle of the job.

[Lburou]

That is how we learn.  My hindsight is pretty good too. 

[LazyBkpr]

No doubt.. Hindsight is a cruel teacher, but inevitably, the lessons learned through Hindsight seem to stay with us a long time.


    When i do removals, I use Honey B Gone, spray it back in behind the hive, and the bees will NOT retreat to that area. Once the hive is vacced up, and all the comb removed, I will also spray honey b gone in the location. It will drive out any returning bees instantly. That stuff is a part of my regular "carry" equipment.. In fact, I need to buy MORE before next spring.

   http://www.honeybgone.com/

   I think there is a link on the main page to this forum as well.  Scott knows his stuff..   I read his advert.. and was dissatisfied by what I read.. so I sent him a message...  I'll be hanged if he didnt "CALL" me within ten minutes...  We talked about a half an hour, and I ordered both the swarm commander, and the Honey B Gone...    BOTH products work, and they BOTH smell wonderful..    The first time I used the honey b gone All I could think of was....  MAN, this stuff smells GOOD, why are the bees not ATTRACTED to it?   But they were not, any area it was sprayed, they vacate post haste, and would NOT return..
   I have used this stuff on my Veil when cutting out THE meanest hive I have ever encountered.. I was scraping bees from my veil so i could see....  Had the brilliant idea of spraying this stuff on it, and had no further problems.. the bees still gathered, but did not land.
   I have opften wondered what kind of RASH I would get if I sprayed it on my skin...   there would be no NEED for a bee suit....