Author Topic: Queenless Swarm? (Read 8065 times)

Drbees · « **on:** August 01, 2016, 09:41:34 am »

I went to collect a swarm yesterday and the bees had a few square inches of comb on a branch. It looked like there was 5-10 eggs per cell. Does this mean that have no queen or do they get confused when they swarm?

Perry · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:05:24 am »

When queens start laying, that is, when a virgin goes out and mates and then comes back and starts to lay, it is not uncommon to find multiple eggs in some cells. It can take a week or two for queens to get into a "groove" so to speak, as it just new to them. Given that you may have a cast or secondary swarm, and she only has what little comb available to lay in, it might explain what you are seeing.

iddee · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:12:50 am »

Lburou · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:13:27 am »

I suspect you have assessed the situation correctly. Search for a queen, if you don't have a queen the eggs are probably from laying worker(s). There is a good possibility a recently mated queen laid those eggs. Give them a frame of drawn comb and see what happens.

Drbees · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:29:34 am »

I shook them into a box with comb and it looked like they were staying in ( bees coming and going). There was a few that wanted to go back to the branch they were on, so I left my box there and will reassess tonight.
I thought I saw a small marked queen but decided a few days time of leaving them alone would not hurt.
I plan to bring them home tonight if they are still there.

Drbees · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:46:17 am »

I guess the question rolling around in my brain is, " does a swarm happen without a queen?"

iddee · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:49:58 am »

" does a swarm happen without a queen?"

NO

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #7 on:** August 02, 2016, 07:53:19 am »

Good question, Drbees. Thanks for posting.

Drbees · « **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2016, 09:23:08 am »

Well I went last night to collect my hive. There was a small ( slightly larger than a grapefruit) cluster of bees stallion the branch.
I shook them into the box, strapped a lid on and put a screen over the bottom and brought them home in a few days I will see if the egg thing is sorted out.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:13:40 am »

Many times i have seen bees swarm and stage in a bush or tree 20ft to 50ft from there hive, only to return to there mother hive before i can collect them? They for some reason swarmed without a queen and returned to there hive? ???I guess they were practicing

Jack

Drbees · « **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:22:43 am »

These were not close to a hive. But they had started drawing comb. Don't know if that means they were planning to stay there or not. They were just all hanging on a branch. There was bees coming and going just like a hive.
I was kind of thinking if I moved them they would have to re orientate, and maybe stay in the hive?

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #11 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:58:37 am »

When they start building comb and are coming and going, they have a queen. JMHO. Jack

Drbees · « **Reply #12 on:** August 02, 2016, 06:29:04 pm »

Well I took a look. I have probably 15 queen cells started with multiple eggs per cell, and about 5 frames covered with bees.

Lburou · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2016, 07:38:52 pm »

I think somebody needs to explain the rules to those bees....

Perry · « **Reply #14 on:** August 02, 2016, 08:23:52 pm »

Got me stumped

I'd be inclined to wait them out and see what they do, but then I have enough hives now I can afford to do that.

Drbees · « **Reply #15 on:** August 02, 2016, 09:05:44 pm »

I think that's what I'll do. There is more bees where this swarm was so going to take a look. I saw no drones in the hive Do drones go with a swarm?

Perry · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2016, 09:07:02 pm »

I believe some do.

Drbees · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2016, 08:29:36 pm »

Well still just eggs no larva yesterday, so I gave them a frame of eggs and brood.
Had a larva floating in royal jelly in a queen cup today.
Hope they keep it, I just saw one.

Drbees · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2016, 12:20:39 pm »

I checked on Tuesday afternoon so 4 days after I saw the Queen cell and it was capped. Just one though.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2016, 05:03:47 pm »

One is all they need if it emerges alive, and returns from the mating flight...

Bees may initiate swarming, but do not "usually" gather if they have no queen.. When they fly with a queen, she is NOT an exceptional flyer, and depending on where they are headed, my pause and gather along the way while the queen rests.
When there is no queen, they will often take to the air, fly off a short distance, and then begin returning. I have watched this happen with a "clipped" queen, meaning her wing was snipped so she could not fly.. the bees launched, the queen launched.. flew half a dozen feet and ended up in the grass.. the bees gathered around her for a time, and eventually returned to the hive, leaving her with about a dozen bees... They waited for the first queen cell to emerge, and then swarmed with the virgin queen.

Come to think of it, Dr. Seelys (Spelling?) videos that Mrs. River posted shows this as well, the bees flying off and then returning because the queen was actually caged.
Excellent videos, I have never heard the piper scouts, or witnessed the Buzz runners.

http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,5770.0.html