Fall Medicating the Bee

[Tommy]

Hi everyone. Days are getting shorter and I'm getting ready to medicate my bees. My question is can treat the bees with more than one medication at a time? For example, mite away strips, foul brood mix and fumajilan B? They're all different delivery methods but is this too much?

Thank you.

[Perry]

I believe the recommendation is to do your treatment first with the strips, then feed.
Fumagilan and Oxytet can be used together in your sugar syrup. Foulbrood mix will require you disturbing your hives 3 times to apply.

[40 Acre Bees]

Just a side question - do most people remove the MAQS after the seven days, or do you leave them in the hive for the bees to dispose of?
Thanks in advance - 40 Acre Bees

[lazy shooter]

OK, I am interested in how many people treat healthy bees?  Do you just treat for preventative measures?  Does the treatments affect any other organisms in the hive?  I'm not attempting to be argumentative.  It is a curious mind thing.

lazy

[Jen]

Lazy, my thoughts is that it depends on the climate, for nosema. Generally, we have pretty mild climate here in upper northern California. So my bees can get out a little more often to poop than Perry's bees where he can be buried in snow for months.

Although last fall I missed the nosema treatment and my bees came out of winter just fine. But I did put an empty super on top of the hive with straw in it to help wick away moisture from the inside of the hive. It worked nicely, the straw at the end of winter was getting pretty black in color.

[40 Acre Bees]

Mites are the only thing I treat for.  for example  this year each hive is just going to get one MAQS instead of two.  We would like to be completely treatment free, but I believe it was mites that took out our two hives a few years back so we don't take any chances.  MAQS are considered organic so we are alright with using them, 

[Perry]

I usually remove the MAQS after the treatment ends, more to make sure everything is alright. It can cause queen loss, but I haven't seen that yet. Last year we had a hot spell and I did cook one hive, lots of dead bees and frames of dead brood.

Lazy shooter, to answer your question, if you only have a few hives it is possible to do mite counts and determine whether you need to treat or not. When you have hundreds of hives it is not so easy. Treating the hives that need it and not treating those that don't would be a time and costly endeavor. Most commercial keeps would do sample testing in yards and if mite counts are high the entire yard gets treated, which makes sense in my opinion, simply because the odds they are all effected is great.
Formic is also effective against tracheal mites, although they no longer seem to be the problem they once were.

[lazy shooter]

@Perry:

i assumed Tommy was a hobbyist or a sideliner.  I can readily see how a commercial keep cannot test all of the hives. 

The Rweaver and Bweaver aparies both claim their bees are quite resistive to tracheal mites.  In my six years with bees, I have never treated for tracheal mites. 

lazy

[Jen]

What would be a sign that a hive is infected with tracheal mites? I think the wings stand straight out?

[Perry]

Up here it was usually a weak hive or a dead one.
Nova Scotia was tracheal mite free up until a few years ago, but with the increased use of formic to battle varroa, it has become virtually mute.

[Lburou]

Philosophy about treating our bees is always interesting reading.  I respect all opinions.  Years ago, I used prophylactic antibiotic treatments for AFB.  Now that we have seen resistance to those antibiotics I stopped prophylactic use and would just burn a hive with AFB. 

Now, I use antibiotics only when I see an active infection (other than AFB).  We have a Veterinarian in our bee club.  I consulted with him about a recent sighting of EFB (he's my neighbor).  I treated with Oxytetracycline mixed with powdered sugar -per Dr. Jamie Ellis' recommendation for fast, dry Tx. 

FWIW, during that discussion and examination of the Oxytetracycline label, he shocked me when he told me that efficacy of Oxytetracycline lasts less than 24 hours when mixed in water -this fact was in the fine print on the label. 

[Jen]

I thought Oxalic Acid also treats Tracheal mites?

[brooksbeefarm]

One sign of Trecheal mites is bees on the ground in front of the hive crawling aimlessly around. I haven't put chemicals in my hives for over 15 years now, i use to treat mites with Thyme oil (essential oil) and probably should start again. I usually lose 1/4 to 1/3 of my hives over winter which from what i read is normal? I don't like it but with everything the bees have to put up with i guess were lucky. My big problem was with shb this year, never had a hive lost to them before? ( lost 8 so far this year) I am fighting them with a cloth valled a swiffers, you can get them at the dollar store (40 to a box), just take one and stretch it out on top of the brood box frames or on top of the top super or both, leave for a few days or a week and check them to replace them. I've seen as my as 50 to 100+ caught in them, i then use them for smoker fuel The shb have spurs on their legs and they get caught in the swiffers., you will catch a few bees, very few, but like war, you have to sacrifice a few to save many. That's what i was told when i was in the military. Jack

[Jen]

Jack, the same of Oxalic Acid Vaporizer treatments, when I pull the metal cup out of the hive, generally there is a fried bee or two comes out with it.

Bees wandering around on the ground near the hives always makes me look closely at the bees. If their wings are curled up into sticks, that is Deformed Wing Virus from mites. But from what I understand about Tracheal mites, the mites clog up the throat of the bee leaving the bee not able to breath. So the bees will open their wings all the way out to the sides in an attempt to open up their breathing passage.

I haven't seen any signs of Tracheal infected bees, but I have seen Deformed Wing Virus.

[Tommy]

Great information and conversation. Thanks for all the awesome input!

[riverbee]

"Hi everyone. Days are getting shorter and I'm getting ready to medicate my bees. My question is can treat the bees with more than one medication at a time? For example, mite away strips, foul brood mix and fumajilan B? They're all different delivery methods but is this too much?"

treat ONLY what needs treatment.......treat for mites and MAYBE one dose of fumagilan, and i am not sure this is necessary anymore, maybe in the spring IF there is evidence to treat. i don't use f b in the fall in sugar syrup (that's just me) ...........foul brood? do you have an infection? don't treat for what is unecessary. 

l am with lee,  "I use antibiotics only when I see an active infection (other than AFB)."

[lazy shooter]

@lee:

Prophylactic?  I just can't let that pass.  I didn't know Trojan made anything small enough for bees.  I am impressed. 

And yes, I do realize the definition of prophylactic.

lazy

[CBT]

Thanks Lazy. I wanted to but I didn't. BUT I WANTED TO

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[Lburou]

Lazy, they just repurpose shower caps made for politicians.