Great Dane Puppy ~

[kingd]

Our Dane adventure started years ago when our Aussie/mix was getting older,We have had good luck with an older dog help
with teaching a younger dog.
 Found out someone had Dane puppies for sale and thought why not? When the old dog passed our Dane was very depressed and
just buy chance we found another Dane that needed a new home,Took a couple of weeks but they are best friends now.

  The old girl is Violet, 9 years old and all black 110 lbs And our adopted girl is now 3 years old and 153 lbs,her name is Ella Mae.
I am not sure if it is Great Danes that are weird or being females ,maybe both We have always had male dogs in the past but the wife wanted to try a girl dog , No complaints here though.
  They are my wifes dogs without a doubt even though I am the one that took them to dog school and to the vet etc.

 Love them both and at times I get the itch to get another one.
 P.S.
  Both of our girls each have a small stuffed toy that they get when it is time to go to bed,always the same toy,And they are not dog toys,they childrens stuffed animals.
 The little dog has a tiny stuffed gorilla that she kept getting out of my daughters room and the younger one has a Thomas the train
Pillow pet stuffed toy. 
 They do not wreck them or chew them and all we do is put them in a pillow case to wash every so often.
 Never figured it out

 

[Jen]

Hey Kingd and Rrat, maybe Perry too.

Phoebe is now almost 11 months. The last 2-3 days my older female lab mix has been just lightly humping around Phoebe. And today Phoebe was just breaking every rule, even sneaking and getting into mischief. Could she be in heat? I haven't noticed any droplets..

[Chip Euliss]

Hey Kingd and Rrat, maybe Perry too.

Phoebe is now almost 11 months. The last 2-3 days my older female lab mix has been just lightly humping around Phoebe. And today Phoebe was just breaking every rule, even sneaking and getting into mischief. Could she be in heat? I haven't noticed any droplets..

Jen, the behavior you describe is all about social dominance structure instead of a reproductive thing.  Dogs need to understand where they sit in social dominance of the group of dogs (and other critters, including humans) and humping is a way they sort that out.  It's confusing because it seems similar to breeding to us humans but the dogs understand it very well.  When one dog humps another, they are telling the "Humpee" that they are one notch above them in social stature.  Sorry for the "humpee" but it's all I could think of at this hour.  You see this when you bring a new dog home or you put a bunch of dogs together that aren't acquainted.  It's a behavior of pack animals that keeps the pack strong and organized and, in the case of wolves, produces pack leaders; an alpha male and an alpha female.  As dogs age, they continue to check their social standing by humping or other behaviors (there are more than just humping).   Rarely aggressive.  It's almost like dogs need to know where they fit in rather than needing to advance as we see in humans.

[Riverrat]

Jen  Chip nailed it with  nothing but net.  as for the mischief and sneaking.  she is getting comfy around the house as I said danes use their intelligence to try and beat you at your game

[Jen]

Thanks Chip and Rrat. I do know some about the hump dominance thing. But it was the first time I've seen a female express this attitude. And Katy, our old dog, the humper, poor thing has arthritis in her hips and she's doing the best hump she can to remain the dominant leader. I do believe Phoebe gets what Katy is telling her.

Rrat, definitely seeing the precociousness in Phoebe. If she doesn't get what she wants, she will go and knock the phone off of it's cradle, pulls the cord on the lamp until the lamp hits the floor. We've pretty much puppy proofed the house to keep her from getting into trouble all the time, but I'll be darned, she can find something to make me pay attention to her.

She's doing real well  sleeps all night, races around the yard 2-3 times a day, slowly getting the leash down, sitting nicely while I put her bowl of food down otherwise me and the food end up on the floor

[Jen]

I'm reading about when to get her spayed, some say that is you spay or neuter a dane before 2 years that it could shorten their life? Phoebe is just under a year old.

[kingd]

Definitely a dominance thing,Funny thing is friends of ours brought their female German Shepard over for a nail trim,
Our big girl went right over and started the humping thing

  I have heard of waiting before getting fixed,I didn't know about 2 years, I was told 1 year to 1 1/2 years though

[Chip Euliss]

We fix Brittanys at about their first estrous cycle which is about 9 months.  Don't know about larger dogs but your vet will.  Other dominance behaviors include a dog placing their foot on top of ours or leaning into us.  Many people interpret it as affection but it isn't.  In the dog training seminars, we often see the dogs main owner as the leader but other family members fall way down in social standing (in the dogs view).  Dogs have a simple body language but they are very effective when they train "their" human. 

[Jen]

Chip, now Phoebe will pin us against the wall, or into a chair where we can't get out. It's a little problematic when you have 90 lbs to get out from under 

[kingd]

I didnt know that about the leaning thing,Amazing what you can learn from fellow beekeepers

[Chip Euliss]

Chip, now Phoebe will pin us against the wall, or into a chair where we can't get out. It's a little problematic when you have 90 lbs to get out from under 

Sounds like Phoebe is making solid progress getting you trained   Dogs are amazing animals; can't imagine getting by without a few around me

[Jen]

Kingd ~ Ain't it the truth?

I always thought that dane leaning thing was a big hug. Hmmm, not sure how to deal with those pin downs now? What do you think King?

[Chip Euliss]

Jen, we use a knee to lightly thump the dog away and increase the intensity until you get the response you want.  Then go back to a very light thump and she will comply unless she challenges you again.   Main thing is to teach the dog that a certain action by you requires them to comply.   They will challenge you all the time so no need to escalate the signal with progressively stronger thumps.  Always go back to a mild, and undetectable almost (to humans) she'll learn not to do that because you are dominant.  I've trained a couple of chessies that weighed 130 lbs so size isn't the issue.  If you can't get the reaction you want, step on her foot.  Start gentle until you get compliance and then go back to your most gentle setting dogs train like horses in that pressure somewhere on their body means a certain thing.  Like training the neck of a horse what it means when the reins touch one side of their neck or the other.

All that said, she's your dog and letting her push you around a little may not affect her value as a pet (and friend) to you.  Everybody has different expectations so you should have the dog the way you want.  Letting her get away with crowding isn't as bad as other behaviors and shouldn't affect aggressiveness.  It's all about social standing.  It is also possible that her handicap may influence her behavior.  I wouldn't be overly concerned unless she holds you to a wall for longer than you want.  I teach them behavioral rules early because they can be more difficult to change as they get older.  And I teach all my dogs the same rules so I don't have to remember different things for different dogs--i have too many to do otherwise.  But, if you wait, I'm living proof that you can teach an old dog new tricks

[Riverrat]

All of our danes have been learners.  We have always allowed them to lean as they never actually got pushy just wanted to lean on you,  We like for our danes to keep their personality its give and take.  Some of the things they do to show dominance is not allowed but on the other hand the leaning we go with as we enjoy them and after all you got to even let people win every now and again or they quit playing.

[Jen]

Real good Chic and Rrat.

Chip, I like the gentle knee thing. And I actually don't mind the leaning so much, but I do mind being pinned down. When she leans on me, I give her 3-4 nice long strokes down the stretch of her beautiful body, then give her a noogy on the head and move away.

If I'm on the couch or it's nap time on the bed, she now knows that she cannot plop half of her big body across me, or she knows my feet come up and push her off of me. She's getting it. I just love napping with her.

Rrat, this girl is Smart! and I find myself constantly chuckling at her antics. One thing I've taken into consideration with Phoebe is that she was already 10 months old when we brought her home, so I knew I was in for some adjustment and correction, not much but just enough that all of us who live in our house are comfortable and at ease with each other.

I think one of the things that I'm so endeared with, is how she will be sound asleep on the couch, wake up, come look for me, then return to the couch and go right back to sleep. It comforting to know that she just needs to know where I am.

Also Rrat, did you get all of your danes as small puppies?

[Riverrat]

I got all fo them at 8 weeks except theo and we got him at 5 weeks.  We was way bigger than the other pups and eating solid food.  When the other pups would try to nurse he would bully them out of the way.  A dominance thing.  We wanted to wait for 8 weeks but went ahead and brought him home.  The  5 through 8 week perios is crucial for a pups development with their siblings and theo missed this and we can see  that he missed it.  one is learning how to play he plays a littlr rough but a lot of that is in the way him and I played

[Jen]

I see. Phoebe came from a possible backyard dane breeder in southern Calif, been learning a lot about this back yard breeder thing. She did come with AKC papers that named her sire and dam tho. From there, she and her bro were about 4 months old, when a legit breeder in Oregon took her and her brother. Because they both carry the merle gene, and the original breeders were not able to sell them and were going to put them to sleep.

So, from 4 months to 10 months Phoebe and bro stayed with a family of 8 kids. The woman of the house was complaining of the destructiveness of these two danes. So the Man of the house decided to keep Phoebe's brother as his service dog, the man of the house is a recovering veteran. So, Phoebe needed a new home.

That said, I'm always amazed at how dogs behave differently in other homes. Phoebe hasn't been destructive at all, except for one foam pad the first week she was here. Possibly a much quieter environment, and more one on one attention. Lucky Me 

Now, she's going in for her first vet check today. She has a lot of pink on her nose. My trainer said that it's a good idea to have her nose tattooed black for sun exposure. That pink noses are susceptible to sunburn and cancer. If her nose gets cancerous the vet would have to cut away that part of her nose. That would break my heart.

Rrat, Chip, and Kingd...  How do you guys feel about this?

[kingd]

I'm not sure about the nose thing,I am curious what the vet will say.

The knee thing works well,it also works for dogs that like to jump up on you.

[Chip Euliss]

The reasoning for the tattoo makes sense to me but I don't have any experience.  All the dogs I've owned over the year had brown or black noses.    Vet should be a source of information.  If not too expensive, it might be worthwhile if there's a clear benefit. 

[Jen]

I'll let ya know what vet says today. I haven't heard of this either but here is a peculiar story. Two of my friends have a shop on main street, this shop is an art gallery, consignment art, sculptures, and tattoos. Anyway, I was telling them this idea of tatting my dogs nose, the tat artist said that one time a person came in with their dog and ask to have it's nose tattooed, for the same reason as my dog. Tattoo artist said "Really.. you have to be kidding me?..Right?" and that's putting it mildly.

This dog owner was willing to hold down the dog while it's nose would be tattooed. Of course it didn't happen.

This is her nose now