Author Topic: mixing bees from different colonies (Read 10192 times)

tedh · « **on:** December 30, 2016, 12:02:14 pm »

Hi Everyone,
I'd like to make up a couple of deep ten frame hives (single boxes) this coming spring and heard that I could do so by using frames of brood and bees from 3 different colonies. That I shouldn't mix frames of brood and bees from 2 colonies because they'd fight, but mixing them from 3 colonies would be okay as the pheromones would be so mixed up. Is this true? I understand that I could make nucs from each colony then newspaper combine them, which we will do if necessary. Thanks for being here, Ted

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2016, 12:47:19 pm »

One frame each from 3, 4, or 5 hives make a good nuc. As stated, using only two will cause fighting, but will still work. You will just lose a few bees from the war.
If you use only 2 hives, when you remove a frame, walk 20 feet or more away slowly, the return and place the frame in the nuc. That gives the foragers time to fly home, and the bees remaining are not as prone to fighting, or, move both hives 20 feet and wait 30 minutes to pull frames. Set an empty hive at the original location. All the foragers will return home and all that is left will be house bees. Make your new hive up and return the remains to the original location.

tedh · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2016, 02:57:44 pm »

Thanks iddee! Taking a frame or 2 from 12 different hives and putting them directly into 10 frame deeps will make this easier on us. Gotta love that! Ted

Perry · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2016, 03:30:15 pm »

Another trick is to have spray bottle with 1 to 1 sugar syrup with a few drops of vanilla extract or lemongrass oil in it and give each frame a quick spritz. They all smell the same until they clean up all the syrup and by then they just get along.

tedh · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2016, 03:51:01 pm »

Excellent Perry! I'll try to store that away. I've used sugar water spray but never thought of adding vanilla or lemongrass oil. Ted

neillsayers · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2016, 09:13:58 pm »

I have used 1-1 with vanilla to add combs of brood with bees to a weak colony and it works. Practically no fighting.

Lburou · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2016, 12:29:32 am »

Interesting answers to Ted's question, you have uncovered another gap in my education Ted.

Sometimes combining bees works better than others. I'll keep better notes next year.

The famous queen breeder Brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey wrote that he did not notice fighting when combining bees. He was adamant enough to write a paragraph about it. I have read that bees can recognize sisters and close cousins. FWIW, I've observed increased aggression toward a new queen when bees are not closely related to her, (Minn Hygienic bees accepting RWeaver queen for instance).

A long time beekeeper in our Club uses sugar water and vanilla to combine bees, at his behest I have used that with success too.

Beeman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2016, 07:57:55 pm »

neillsayers is correct. I have used this method many times for years & it works every time.

CBT · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2016, 08:54:38 pm »

I thought that is why some use Honey Bee Heathly in the 1-1 spray bottle.

Perry · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2016, 10:22:05 pm »

For what it's worth, I just discovered this tid bit. Ugh! Think I'll stick with lemongrass oil.

Beaver Butts Emit Goo Used for Vanilla Flavoring!
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration lists castoreum as a “generally regarded as safe” additive, and manufacturers have been using it extensively in perfumes and foods for at least 80 years, according to a 2007 study in the International Journal of Toxicology. Castoreum is a chemical compound that mostly comes from a beaver’s castor sacs, which are located between the pelvis and the base of the tail. Because of its close proximity to the anal glands, castoreum is often a combination of castor gland secretions, anal gland secretions, and urine.

The fragrant, brown slime is about the consistency of molasses, though not quite as thick, Crawford said.

While most anal secretions stink—due to odor-producing bacteria in the gut—this chemical compound is a product of the beaver’s unique diet of leaves and bark, Crawford added.

Instead of smelling icky, castoreum has a musky, vanilla scent, which is why food scientists like to incorporate it in recipes.

iddee · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2016, 10:27:42 pm »

Why should that bother you. You eat unborn baby animals nearly every day.

EGGS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EGGS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and more EGGS.

BoilerJim · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2016, 11:08:35 pm »

WTH Perry. Where do you find this kind of stuff? Yuck! 😷

neillsayers · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2017, 07:36:53 pm »

THANKS Perry,

You managed to ruin vanilla ice cream for me!

CBT · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2017, 08:38:47 pm »

Don't worry Neil make your on vanilla like we do by the quart, then make your on ice cream.

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2017, 05:17:59 pm »

Although I am a scientist by trade (retired now), I'm not very scientific when I combine hives. Each year, I have a number of 5-frame nucs that didn't get used over summer. I make double deep hives out of them by combining them to get about the right amount of brood/bees and weight. I crack the lids and do a quick assessment and then combine the number of nucs I need to make a double deep. I take the very best nuc and install it in a deep box, including the queen. I then start adding frames of brood/food where needed and pinch queens as I go. I'll miss a queen every once in a while but I don't re-check in the interest of time. Once the double deep is assembled, I add a couple of pounds of pollen patty and fill the feeder with syrup and call it good. I should add that I do this when it's cool (highs in the mid-50's F). I add a big colored pin so I can keep track of them amongst the other hives. For reasons I can't explain, the hives turn out well with a minimum of dead bees on the bottom board. I suspect that the cool temps take some of the fire and vinegar out of them until the smells unite. I assume the poorer queen is removed naturally. For me, I only have a certain amount of time and the loss of a hive is not a deal breaker so I take chances that I wouldn't if I only had a hundred or less hives to fool around with. Works for me, anyway

Perry · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2017, 06:04:14 pm »

Chip, pardon me if you have posted this elsewhere before, but how do you feed? Frame feeders?

riverbee · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2017, 10:14:16 pm »

"'Id like to make up a couple of deep ten frame hives (single boxes) this coming spring and heard that I could do so by using frames of brood and bees from 3 different colonies. That I shouldn't mix frames of brood and bees from 2 colonies because they'd fight, but mixing them from 3 colonies would be okay as the pheromones would be so mixed up. Is this true? "

i have made deeps from whatever is available in each of my hives. i just pull frames, make sure the queen isn't on it......maybe spray a little sugar syrup........good to go!
so yes, i have mixed brood and bees from 2 hives, no problem, and when i can mixed in even more..............

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2017, 11:42:47 pm »

Quote from: Perry on January 04, 2017, 06:04:14 pm

Chip, pardon me if you have posted this elsewhere before, but how do you feed? Frame feeders?

Yep and I leave them in the hive all the time. I do clean them out a little when I'm making splits in spring. Pollen sub goes between 2 pieces of wax paper and between the two boxes.

vvand111 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2017, 08:03:00 am »

Chip, sub pollen with wax paper on top of frames?? Any SHB problem??

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2017, 12:15:54 am »

I see an occasional SHB but not enough to cause concern. North Dakota summers and California winters aren't the right weather combination for them I guess