Author Topic: Taranov Method?  (Read 5124 times)

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Taranov Method?
« on: February 02, 2017, 10:07:46 am »
Hi All,

I have been leaning to this method when I begin swarm control. Pros/Cons from experienced folks please....

Cheers, Bill
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Offline Dunkel

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 04:26:32 pm »
Hey Nugget, I had checked it out last year.  Lee had sent me some information of an artificial swarm method.  I only did it once but had really good luck.  I think this is a link  https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbeespoke.info%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2FArtificialSwarm.pptx
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Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 10:12:27 am »
Ive found that I can reduce swarming most of the time by giving them enough room so I don't routinely manage against the swarming instinct.  When I find cells, I pull that frame (s) and start a new hive (s).  I also tend to replace my queens each year so most are young ones that are less likely to swarm.   I did listen to most of the video and have no reason to believe it wouldn't work.   I did take exception to one comment the presenter said that isn't quite right--specifically that what he was doing was just like what the bees would do in nature, only at a time of your choosing.   By shaking the bees on the sheet, only the old bees would fly back to the original hive location.  The queen would be left with mostly flightless nurse bees and they represent the swarm he created.  When bees swarm, it works the other way.  Flightless nurse bees don't go with the queen; they stay in their original location and don't have to change jobs--they just keep on being nurse bees.  With this method, some of the field bees have to change vocations and become nurse bees once again.  I'm sure it would work because bees are very adaptable but the method doesn't truly replicate the natural process.

An alternate way that I frequently use is to find the queen and leave her in the original box and location along with enough bees to tend the brood on that frame.  Then provide some drawn comb next to the brood, some pollen and honey frames, etc.  The remaining frames of brood, food and bees can be arranged in new boxes that you use to establish new hives.   Once you have them set up, you can move the new start(s) a short distance away (like in the video) or you can stack them on the original hive above an excluder.  I prefer to leave them on the original hive with an excluder. If you move them, the old bees will fly home so your new starts will have only young bees, brood and food--I've used this method when I had some Africanized stock because the older bees tended to kill the new queen. They will be redistributed by late afternoon if you separate them early that day.  Take a peak in the new splits in the evening and if they don't contain enough bees, put them back on the original hive and use an excluder to keep the queen out of the new split.  If they have enough bees, they can be moved to a distant location and requeened.  The next morning, take the splits and move them past the flight distance of the bees and give them a new queen.  The old bees that are smarmy then have very little brood, lots of laying space, their laying queen and an ample field force.  Your split should have plenty of bees, lots of brood but a break in brood production until your new queen reports for duty and starts laying.

Always more than one way to skin a cat but this one has worked well for me and it helps keep a diversity of age classes in the hive during the transition period.  It's also quick because you don't need to shake the frames and you can move frames very quickly once you know where the queen is located.  I can usually find her pretty quick but you could use an excluder a few days prior so you know which box she's in and then just set up as before but shake all the bees in the bottom box below the excluder so you don't wind up with the queen in the wrong place.  Should achieve the same result for you with less work.  In my case, I'd want to go back in a couple of weeks and replace the old queen if warranted.  Heck, I'm bad about replacing them anyway--cheap insurance I guess. 

The main thing is to have fun and learn a little along the way. 
Chip
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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 09:26:18 am »
Thank you for your detailed response  :yes:
Cheers, Bill

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 01:07:00 am »
And why waste time looking for a queen?

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Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 08:37:32 am »
That's essentially what I do when I make splits except for looking for the queen and evaluating her performance on the most promising frames.  If I don't find her on a few frames, I just shake and make a new split to put above the excluder.  If her laying performance is poor, I'll spend a little more time to find and pinch her, then requeen both boxes.   If I don't have enough new queens or cells on hand, I'll mark the box and requeen later.   I'm slow but I can usually get through 50 or 60 hives per day and find the queen on most or all of them on an average day.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 04:53:41 pm »
It almost looks easy eh?  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline tedh

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 07:07:18 pm »
 These four frames that go above the queen excluder, all from the same colony?  Or could I pull a frame or 2 from 3 different colonies and put a queen excluder and the pulled frames on a fourth colony?  Ted
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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 08:10:11 pm »
Totally respect everyone,  so basically you can split a hive equally with excluder, then figure out where Q at ? ?

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 08:15:36 pm »
Totally respect everyone,  so basically you can split a hive equally with excluder, then figure out where Q at ? ?

Not sure if this was a question, comment or -----? Butttt.... pull brood frames you wish to move- shake all bees to a bottom box- put queen excluder on and move brood to a top box above exlcluder. Nurse bees will move up through the excluder to cover brood. Come back later, the queen has to be below and the split is above...

Offline tedh

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 08:29:07 pm »
I edited my previous post but see that others had posted before the edit.  Let me try this again.  Could I pull a frame or two from three different colonies and put a queen excluder and the pulled frames above a fourth colony?  Thanks, Ted
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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 08:35:30 pm »
SC , on a spring build up , after overwintering will the Q not move up an down. Is my question , can ya not just cut 2 ten deep brood boxes in half with excluder.?  ?

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 08:45:43 pm »
SC , on a spring build up , after overwintering will the Q not move up an down. Is my question , can ya not just cut 2 ten deep brood boxes in half with excluder.?  ?

No need for an excluder for the split... just split the boxes and take one away. Go back in 3 days and the one with eggs has the queen. The one starting queen cells is queenless. The excluder trick is when you can not find the queen and you want to queen the split right away. Or just to save time and not look for the queen on quick requeens vs waiting three days for a sign...

Splitting with an excluder and going back 3 days looking for eggs is ok except if there are any drones above the excluder they can not get out unless a way out above...

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 08:51:07 pm »
These four frames that go above the queen excluder, all from the same colony?  Or could I pull a frame or 2 from 3 different colonies and put a queen excluder and the pulled frames on a fourth colony?  Ted

I would think minus bees if you are going atop a queen right colony. Just the brood frames...or risk the other colonies bees killing the queen. Others may disagree on this.
  But as far as a queenless split pull frames for at least three hives and they will be confused and not fight. Bees from just two colonies and they will fight..

Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 08:53:15 pm »
But how far do ya move the standard split 5 miles?  ?

Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 09:06:21 pm »
We seen bees split in same apiary from  farel tree hives that have the aggression an want to swarm

Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Taranov Method?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 08:05:03 am »
2 miles Mikey.  Ted, I've added brood from other colonies and it worked fine.

I actually would prefer an excluder to split hives versus just separating the 2 halves and waiting 3 days.  Keeping the halves together has the advantage of both halves being queenright. I've found that if I wait 3 days, the half without the queen will be making emergency like crazy.  Shaking bees below the excluder let's you install queens much sooner.   Both methods work and each has advantages and short comings. My preference is to find the queen and then arrange the frames to make new hives and use the excluder to let the bees redistribute overnight. When I don't find her right away, I shake and separate with an excluder.  Lets me physically separate them the next day.  For me, it's the quickest method.
Chip