Package bees?

[Green bee]

 Ok so with the season fast approaching, I have a couple packages of bees on there way come April. I think I have everything need to have a good start . I have studied for almost a year now. After watching a year in the life of an apiary. Keaith Delaplane treats his bees as he installes the packages. I know these Videos is old and a lot could change over time. Should we still follow his guidelines as acceptable or is there better ways or other things that need to be done?  Thanks for any and all advise. I really want to start off with all the advantages I can get ( I'll need all the help I can get to)

[Perry]

I got the book and accompanying video series of Delaplanes as well when I first started. It is a little dated but still relevant.
I would consider Oxalic vapour for a first treatment of a package (no brood cells for varroa to hide in), but I have never used packages so take my advice for it's worth.

[CBT]

I would agree with Perry. Even if the seller says they were treated an oxalic acid treatment would start your record with a clean slate so to speak.

[Green bee]

Should I also treat for nosema?

[Perry]

That is a personal choice. Given that you have no idea regarding the health of the packages, you could add some to your first sugar syrup solution. Your bees should easily consume it pronto (good) as they will be drawing comb. Beware that there is a post feed time period before you add any honey supers, but I don't expect that will be a problem for you.

[Bakersdozen]

Good luck on your beekeeping adventure, Green Bee!  The more I learn the more I want to learn.  It's fascinating.

Last year I got a package of bees that displayed signs of nosema and I had to treat with fumigilin.  That has been my only package with problems.  It is possible to have a package come with a dead queen or a queen they won't accept.  They is a chance a package will contain varroa.  Stuff happens.

I have an opportunity to hear Keith Delaplane speak in mid-March over a 3 day period.  I don't believe he is speaking about package installation though. Over the years, the big changes have been in varroa, small hive beetle and Africanized Honey Bees.  Unless you area is prone to AHB, that's probably not a big concern.

[Green bee]

Thanks guys, i guess I could just give them a few weeks and do a mite count and watch for any signs of nosema and treat as needed. I'll ask some locals who have got packages from the same place and see what there track record is and go from there. Don't sound like a treatment for nosema would be to hard on the bees so I might take perrys advice and treat them anyway. Could I do a mite count a few weeks after installing them and be ok or should I give them a bit of time  to get stronger and more established?

[Perry]

If you are going to treat for nosema it is no big deal as you would be feeding 1 to 1 sugar syrup anyways. As for using oxalic acid vapour, you would want to do it before the bees start capping any brood cells where the mites had gone to reproduce.
#1 - Install bees on arrival
#2 - Bees must draw comb for queen to lay in.
#3 - Once drawn, Queen lays eggs
#4 - Eggs are not larvae until day 4 and are not capped until day 10
I would say you could safely treat after they have been hived for a week to 10 days. (just my opinion).

[Green bee]

I have an opportunity to hear Keith Delaplane speak in mid-March over a 3 day period.  I don't believe he is speaking about package installation though. Over the years, the big changes have been in varroa, small hive beetle and Africanized Honey Bees.  Unless you area is prone to AHB, that's probably not a big concern.

    I hope you get to attend, I would be interested in hearing him speak myself, if you go I'd love to hear some of the highlights!

[Green bee]

If you are going to treat for nosema it is no big deal as you would be feeding 1 to 1 sugar syrup anyways. As for using oxalic acid vapour, you would want to do it before the bees start capping any brood cells where the mites had gone to reproduce.
#1 - Install bees on arrival
#2 - Bees must draw comb for queen to lay in.
#3 - Once drawn, Queen lays eggs
#4 - Eggs are not larvae until day 4 and are not capped until day 10
I would say you could safely treat after they have been hived for a week to 10 days. (just my opinion).

this sound like sound advice to me Perry. I have never done a oxalic acid treatment but I have seen it done. I think Keith down at beez needz would come out and show me how to do it. It may be some equipment I need to consider investing in.

[Zweefer]

Go get 'em Green Bee!  You already have a leg up on when I started... this forum! I am sure you will be great! Two words of advise, keep your smoker lit, and try not to study yourself into confusion.

[Green bee]

Go get 'em Green Bee!  You already have a leg up on when I started... this forum! I am sure you will be great! Two words of advise, keep your smoker lit, and try not to study yourself into confusion.

I am easily confused. There is so much information out there you really have to put your blinders on and rely on those with experience. And there's plenty of it here for sure!

[sc-bee]

I have never treated for Nosema... I am not sure fumagillin is as effective on the new strain of nosema.
From SA---
Treatment
O.K., so let’s say that you have found out which of your colonies (or yards) are actually infected, and that you’re uncomfortable with the spore count. You ask, What treatment(s) will actually work, and how best to apply them? At this time, the only well-documented successful treatment for N. ceranae is fumagillin, sold as Fumagilin-B®. If it is given to infected colonies at normal label rates in gallons of heavy syrup, it is generally effective against ceranae. But not as consistently as it was against N. apis. Also, be aware that since N. ceranae thrives during summer, it can fairly quickly rebound after treatmet

As far as OA the package can be treated under a cardboard box after removing the caged queen. I would use 1/2 dose or 1/2 gram.... no I have not done it because I have not had a package in years but that is what folks are recommending.

[Green bee]

As far as OA the package can be treated under a cardboard box after removing the caged queen. I would use 1/2 dose or 1/2 gram.... no I have not done it because I have not had a package in years but that is what folks are recommendin

    I was wondering if they could be treated in the package, Do some suppliers treat like this before shipment? And boy sc-bee I'll have to study your comment some to get the true understanding of what your saying in the rest of your post I am just an old country hick thanks for your thoughts

[sc-bee]

And boy sc-bee I'll have to study your comment some to get the true understanding of what your saying in the rest of your post I am just an old country hick thanks for your thoughts

Notice the From SA it should have said From SB Scientific Beekeeping not my words  ... I am definitely in the same boat with you. You just don't see me because I am on the BACK SEAT 

[Jacobs]

Green bee--don't panic about an initial round of bee poop as you install your packages.  Remember that they have been shut in for at least a couple of days and probably were not given any warning about taking a bathroom break before being shaken into the package.

If you seen ongoing evidence of excessive poop in the days after installation or bee poop on the tops of frames when you go into the hive to make sure the queen has been released, then you can consider a nosema treatment.

Just my opinion.

[Bakersdozen]

Green bee--don't panic about an initial round of bee poop as you install your packages.  Remember that they have been shut in for at least a couple of days and probably were not given any warning about taking a bathroom break before being shaken into the package.

If you seen ongoing evidence of excessive poop in the days after installation or bee poop on the tops of frames when you go into the hive to make sure the queen has been released, then you can consider a nosema treatment.

Just my opinion.

Good point, Jacobs.  I have been caught in the shower when installing a package of bees.    
The package that I was referring to displayed signs of diarrhea about 1 week after installation.  There were tell tale signs of brown streaks on the front of the brood boxes.  Here is a picture I took of the hive I am talking about.  I took this about 1 week after installing the package.

[Bakersdozen]

I have an opportunity to hear Keith Delaplane speak in mid-March over a 3 day period.  I don't believe he is speaking about package installation though. Over the years, the big changes have been in varroa, small hive beetle and Africanized Honey Bees.  Unless you area is prone to AHB, that's probably not a big concern.

    I hope you get to attend, I would be interested in hearing him speak myself, if you go I'd love to hear some of the highlights!

Green bee, here is a little follow up on the Dr. Keith Delaplane lectures.  I will try not to come across as a star struck school girl, but he is an outstanding speaker.  This  professor is so knowledgeable.  Anyone hearing a lecture, taking a class, or reading his books will be a better beekeeper. 
Dr. Delaplane spoke to two different groups.  We got to hear him at the state wide beekeeping association meeting and then at a local beekeeping beginners class.  He spoke on the following topics "Honey Bee superorganism and why it matters", "Integrating Queen Multiple Mating with Traditional Bee Breeding. Queen Polyandry", "Emergent Properties in the Honey Bee Colony", "Biology of Individuals", "Biology of the Colony", and "Honey Bee diseases and pests".
These textbook sounding titles were really easy to understand lectures backed up by extensive research. (His own research as well as giving credit to Tom Seeley, Marla Spivak, Mark Winston and so forth)
Delaplane has some interesting research data on combating varroa mite by spacing hives an appropriate distance.  His thoughts on queen mating were fascinating and left you with the impression that we will be doing a lot more artificial insemination of queens some day.  He also leans toward the hygienic queens.
I could elaborate, but I will say that if he is speaking in your area, make an effort to see him. 
Again, trying not to act like an infatuated school girl, I was asked to transport Dr. Delaplane from his hotel, which was 5 minutes from my house, to the beginning beekeepers class!!! 30 minutes with the keynote speaker!!  We chatted about everything light and casual.  Interesting man.
At the close of the beginners class, we had the traditional door prize drawing at the end of the day.  I won a copy of his First Lesson In Beekeeping which I had him autograph.  He commented it was 10 years old and about time to revise it with a second edition.

[tecumseh]

for many of the established package and queen rearing operation adding a bit of fumidil to the queen cage candy and or the syrup that comes with the package use to be pretty much standard operating procedure.  with all the new folks in beekeeping it is difficult to say whether they do or do not conform to these older rules... such question concerning details from a queen or package supplier is imho a good place to start before purchasing the item.