Doing A Split Today ~ Making A Nuc

[Jen]

When I make a split.. what is the difference.. if I leave the original queen in the hive, and put the new queen in the nuc?

[Perry]

Depends, are you doing a split or making a nuc?

[Wandering Man]

I have read that if the old queen goes into the new box with 1/2 the bees, she and the bees in both boxes will all think they have swarmed, thus reducing the urge to swarm.

They may be a bit confused, thinking they missed the email sent out by the Swarm Generals, but they should be happy that it has already happened and nobody got hurt.  "Oh, and here's a new queen already, we don't have to mess with creating an emergency queen! We just have to help her out of little cage."

[tedh]

Hey Jen!  Leaving the old queen in the parent hive and installing new queen in the nuc is what Josh and I are planning to do as part of swarm prevention, reducing congestion in mature parent hive.  My understanding is that the new queen is more readily accepted in a smaller colony.  Keep in mind that is JUST my understanding.  Placing old queen in the nuc will make the parent hive feel as though they swarmed (artificial swarm?).  My thought is that by placing new queen in parent colony the "artificial swarm" never took place.  That and MAYBE lower acceptance rate.  We requeened 4 hives last year with purchased queens, 3 were accepted.  With the exception of "Hey Jen!" take the above with a grain of salt. . Ted

[Wandering Man]

Ha! Two responses giving opposite recommendations.

Ask two beeks a question, ...

[riverbee]

"When I make a split.. what is the difference.. if I leave the original queen in the hive, and put the new queen in the nuc?"

jen, not sure what you are asking? like perry said are you asking about the difference between a divide/split vs creating a nuc?

[tedh]

Hey WM!  Not at all, I think we are on the same page if Jen is splitting the hive equally to increase her hive count.  I think what you posted earlier is spot on.  My understanding, from earlier posts, was that Jen was wanting to make nucs to sell and decrease her number of hives while preventing the hives she intends to keep from swarming.  Maybe I've misunderstood her intent.  I apologize for the confusion and will now quietly step into the corner and watch.     Ted

[Wandering Man]

I apologize for the confusion and will now quietly step into the corner and watch.     Ted

Hey!  That was MY line! 

I'm already in my corner, watching. 

[Jen]

"Hey WM!  Not at all, I think we are on the same page if Jen is splitting the hive equally to increase her hive count.  I think what you posted earlier is spot on.  My understanding, from earlier posts, was that Jen was wanting to make nucs to sell and decrease her number of hives while preventing the hives she intends to keep from swarming.  Maybe I've misunderstood her intent.  I apologize for the confusion and will now quietly step into the corner and watch.     Ted"

Yes This! I pulled 4 frames of capped brood to make a nuc.

I had an elderly moment there for awhile and couldn't remember why we remove the queen and put her in the nuc, and then requeen the hive. But I got it now. Gotta get her pheromones out of the hive, remove some frames, remove all queen cups and cells, so that the bees are fooled into thinking there has been a swarm. Then giving them a new mated queen so they loose the swarm mode and want to continue with the new queen.

Come out of your corners now boys    and thanks for helping me 


 

[Jen]

Update: I pulled nuc today, 4 frames of brood, eggs, larva, and one frames of pulled wax for queen to keep laying in.

I put the new queen with girls in their cage, in between two frames in the top box and watched for a bit while I cleaned up. Everything seemed fine at first, then about 15 minutes later I pulled the cage out to check and there were bees trying to sting thru the netting. I remember last year, Riverbee, coached me how to do this. I'm thinking that the bees hadn't realized that their queen was missing yet, so this queen was an intruder.
 
So I brought the queen back into the kitchen and closed up the hive until tomorrow, and I'll try to introduce her again. I introduced many queens before and haven't actually seen this rejection before.

Does that sound like a good plan?

[Wandering Man]

Another "I've been told" answer:

I've been told to wait until 24 hours after getting rid of the old queen and queen cells before introducing a queen.

So to me: Yes that sounds right.

[CBT]

Also some spray a little lite syrup with honey bee healthy type product in it to offset any lingering queen scent.

[Craig Anderson]

Beginner question of the day, does NUC stand for something, like is it an acronym or short for a longer work? Just haven't heard that term before.

Thanks

C

[riverbee]

craig............NUC  is short for NUCLEUS hive/colony, typically a smaller colony created from a larger one, also can be a source of drawn comb, extra queens, etc....

[Craig Anderson]

craig............NUC  is short for NUCLEUS hive/colony, typically a smaller colony created from a larger one, also can be a source of drawn comb, extra queens, etc....

Thanks! I'm still learning all the lingo

Would the NUC always be co-located with the original hive or is the intention to eventually separate them and start a full new hive?

[Jen]

Well Crud! I did the same thing yesterday with the other hive. Pulled the nuc, and queen, set the nuc aside. Then reassembled the hive and put the new queen in her cage snug between two top frames. Walked away, job done, for about 4 days.

 :\'( It's been twenty four hours she's been in there... Can the bees actually sting her thru that netted wire on the cage?

[Wandering Man]

Jen I found these video helpful

[riverbee]

"Would the NUC always be co-located with the original hive or is the intention to eventually separate them and start a full new hive?"

craig, i typically move my nucs away from the hives i created them from, 2-3 miles or more.  i typically use nucs to start a full new hive, but they can be used for other purposes.

"Can the bees actually sting her thru that netted wire on the cage?"

yes they can jen.
not sure what the deal is. i always set the cage on top for a bit before placing in between frames, and watch to see what happens. there is a noticeable difference immediately between bees that are happy to receive a queen and bees that are not happy about it.

[Jen]

Wman, those are great vids. Interesting how he put that queen straight into the hive, where as we plug up the corked end with candy and let the bees release her which takes a couple day or so.

When I put her in the hive yesterday, I did watch for a minute maybe, off and on while I was cleaning up tools. I'm wondering if I should check on her tomorrow, see if she's dead in the cage?

[kingd]

I have a friend that can read bees that way and can usually tell right away if a queen will be accepted.

I usually cage mine for 2-5 days and check every other day to see if there is acceptance, I have found that russians seem to take the longest to be accepted,
I always make sure she has some honey in the comb with her just in case.