Author Topic: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive  (Read 20911 times)

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Offline Wandering Man

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2017, 11:45:49 am »
NS, looks like you need that Donkey Suit for your dogs.

BS, I like your suggestion: ShopVac & Soapy water.
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Offline badly stung

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2017, 11:47:45 am »
Wow, sounds bad, you have them in an area that they could hurt someone, or even worse. Maybe get your shop vac, go out and block the entrance, then set the hose nozzle right at the entrance and open it just enough for them to come out and get sucked up. Returning foragers would get sucked up too.

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2017, 11:58:20 am »
Yeah Jen sent a PM about the shop vac, but I am not sure I want to attempt that with this crazy hive as it is a 2 deep with honey supers and that is allot of bees, but if it comes to that it does. Also heard a rag with gasoline will work as well, but wouldn't that also make everything not reusable?

Guess I am learning a hard lesson here.....
Cheers, Bill

Offline Jen

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2017, 12:54:55 pm »
Hi Nug, pmd you, but now that we are talking about sending this hive down river, I'll continue here.

About the shop vac. After I sulfured my hive last year and went back the next day, and still a lot of living bees left... the vacumming was quick and easy, probably because the bees were dopey from the sulfur the day before.

Also, Iddee explained that the sulfur would not render the hive boxes useless like gasoline would.

Just an added note.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2017, 02:08:10 pm »
nugget,
instructions here:

When do you consider a hive too HOT? 

includes sulfur methods, soapy water, dry ice.  also tecumseh used a method with sulfur not mentioned in this thread.  i have copied and pasted if from somewhere else:

"you can also kill bees by making a hand rolled cigarette in which you sprinkle a bit of sulfur. years ago when I employed this method I chopped off a bit of copper pipe to act as a holder (heat shield) which I then placed in the front entry and sealed the remaining entry + top entry with green grass. usually right at dark I would light the 'cigarette' and walk away. this produces hydrogen sulfide gas which is heavy (typically sinks to the lowest point) and extremely lethal but it will not damage or pollute the equipment."

"by adding the sulfur and burning this you are creating hydrogen sulfide which in closed spaces is very lethal. as iddee suggest it will not contaminate the honey. the gas does not hang around very long (it is heavier than air) and as far as I know doesn't have the opportunity to permeate the honey."

also,
instructions from iddee:
"Light your smoker, drop a couple tablespoons of sulfur powder in it.Smoke them well. There won't be any live ones left and the honey will be fine."
 
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if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2017, 03:35:35 pm »
Will update after doing the deed
Cheers, Bill

Offline Lburou

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2017, 03:38:30 pm »
In an emergency situation with neighbors in danger, you can put a garbage bag over the hive & seal it.  They will overheat in minutes...
Lee_Burough

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2017, 03:49:50 pm »
So many ideas on killing a hive.

Maybe this thread should become a "sticky."
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Offline Wandering Man

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Offline Jen

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2017, 04:35:30 pm »
Wman, that's an interesting idea! Ya know, we all face this at some point in time. It's good to know.. First Of All.. that there comes a time when a hive has just Gone Mad! And it okay to destroy it.

Then we are faced with how to go about that quickly and safely. I've had to do this twice, it's a daunting task, but it doesn't have to be.
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Offline neillsayers

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2017, 05:30:26 pm »
I have heard that soapy water in a hand sprayer will knock em down. Did this to a hornet nest and got almost all of them. I just used dawn.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2017, 05:36:12 pm »
nugget..........

good luck, suit up good.  you are doing the right thing and it's the responsible thing to do.
don't let 'em get ya.................. ;D
     

.......... :D
JUST KIDDING!!! just poking fun......as beekeepers we have to find some humor in some of the sad/unpleasant things we may be tasked with.

i would be curious about the wing measurement, shorter than 9.2 millimeters (got this from apis) most likely ahb, longer than 9.2 millimeters, most likely aggressive european bees.

ps neil, yes it does, (in an earlier post). use a pump sprayer or one that attaches to garden hose.

EDIT AND ADD:
wm good idea as a sticky
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2017, 05:54:27 pm »
River, could aggressive eros. be feral ?

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2017, 06:43:20 pm »
I pondered soap, but this is a 2 deep with 2 medium madhouse of crazy bees and I think the sulfur will be safer and less worry about strays nailing the animals and people here. I plan to do this at sundown after taping all cracks etc. and will cover the lower entrance and start smoking from the top driving them down and hopefully will be able to remove a super or two before covering again.

Going to wait a bit and smoke them again.... Should be a done deal by morning and if not will use soap.

Have everything ready to go....

I shall also listen to advise from my more learned friends about taking swarms or cutouts from below 4000 feet elevation here in AZ  :yes: Darn know it all newbies  :-[
Cheers, Bill

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2017, 06:48:38 pm »
So sorry for you. AHB that rampant takes some of the fun out of being a beekeeper.

Apparently you don't have to go much further South than where I live to find the feral hives being predominantly AHB.

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2017, 09:02:23 pm »
Thanks WM, but just part of being responsible as a beekeeper I figure and though unpleasant it is nothing like if I knew of the issue and someone else were to get stung many times over. ^:00 pm here now, one hour from sunset....
Cheers, Bill

Offline riverbee

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2017, 10:40:26 pm »
"River, could aggressive eros. be feral ?"

mikey yes.......
abc xyz defines feral bees as "Wild, non-managed nest of honey bees, as in a tree."
euro bees are not native to the usa and semi domesticated.........blah, blah, blah  but they swarm (reproductive cycle) and because they swarm they can survive in all sorts of places under the right conditions. we don't get all the swarming bees. they go to cavities; trees and stumps, crevices, chimneys, old structures, attics, siding, etc........their survival depends on many variables, like pests and diseases, and weather, where they choose as a home and also i think climate. if they survive, they swarm again. btw, it is the drones genes that give the ornery state of aggressive/mean bees. 

you all in the south or warmer climates capture many more swarms/feral bees than we do in the north; more cutouts, more beetrees more trapouts than i think we do in my area....etc......it just gets too cold up here for them to survive unless they are in a protected structure.

several years ago, i had a neighbor about a mile up the road call me and said he had bees in an old walnut tree. it was late fall, i took a look. he told me he watched it all summer, and mentioned that they had been there for two seasons and two winters. it was too late to get these bees out of that tree, but come spring, they died off. our winters are too cold, and hard to say if mites/disease got them.  i went back many times to check that tree.

structures.....another time i helped many other volunteer beeks clean up bees from an overturned semi on a busy freeway.  what a sad state of affairs this was. smashed  full hives of bees scattered all over the freeway, wooden wear and bees all over creation. frantic bees and stinging everything in sight.  if you want a learning experience, just volunteer for this job.  fire department called in to spray the bees and the equipment just to get traffic moving. for about 4 or 5 years, many of us received phone calls from about a 3 to 4  mile radius of this event for honey bees in trees,  attics, sheds, horse barns, siding, and chimneys. i worked with one homeowner, they had a 4 story home. the bees were up in the chimney somewhere. bees, never got in the house or the attic, no problems inside the house, but i sure did get some nice swarms from setting out swarm boxes for about 4 years. and yes i did encourage them and refer them to someone who was more experienced than i to get to where the bees were calling home.  they never did. oh well, so whatever comb is in there is probably still there, just waiting for another semi tip over............. :D

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Offline Jen

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2017, 11:08:55 pm »
Rooting for you Nug! Take pics if you can. Such learning stuff
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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2017, 11:25:44 am »
OK I used the smoker stoked hot with hardwood chips and sulfur for this operation last evening around sundown. I added a 3 inch section of 1/2 inch pipe with a 90 degree attached to help direct the smoke into the hole on the cover for my bee vacuum that I put on top of the hive and then we sealed all supers with tape and used a rag in the entrance. We also covered the two hives (one each side) to protect them. One should be careful adding the sulfur powder as it is very flammable and wrapping 2.5 tablespoons in a napkin then adding to smoker worked well for me and I applied the first dose.

I have never heard such a roar from bees and they continued through the first 2 applications, then I removed the top super and inner cover and re-installed the lid. The next 2 applications produced absolute quiet after second, I timed applications at 10 minute intervals and had so much smoke in the box you could not see into it through the Plexiglas observation window on my vacuum lid with each dose. Used a total of 5 doses and when smoke finally cleared there was nothing moving when shining a light in the top to look through window. Left it sealed and waited until morning.

At 6:00 am I opened it up and with soap bottle in hand and though there were some still moving nothing was able to fly and I wetted the ones moving with soapy water which quickly killed them. Most of the sulfur smell was also gone and I was left with the task of cleaning up thousands of dead bees. A very humbling task and though we can now walk in the bee yard again I do not feel the hero.... Just responsible in having dispatched these bees before they really hurt someone here. If I would have been further from other folks and animals I may have tried other methods such as re-queening, splits, etc. but I felt that was not an option in this case.

There was lots of honey and brood in a pattern showing the Queen was a real gem, but now I guess I will use all these frames for other hives. Will the bees clean these out (dead brood) if given the frames in other hives?

Below are pictures of the smoker and lid I used and I must say this method is fast clean and very easy to do even for a second year beek. Hard part is cleaning out the dead  :sad:



Cheers, Bill
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Offline Jen

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Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2017, 11:41:56 am »
Ahh Man Nug! I so hear ya ~Hugs~

But what an efficient operation your had set up there! I'm very impressed. And I'm glad that it went smoothly without complication.

This is the beginning of a pleasant summer for you and those around you, instead of worrying that someone is going to get hurt.

I have found that beekeepers are kind people, and so must our bees be  ;) 8)

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