Author Topic: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive  (Read 20912 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2017, 12:08:15 pm »
Yes indeed Jen and much credit goes to folks here like you for helping me decide which route to take and many thanks to riverbee for taking the time to locate information that was a big part of me being prepared and getting it done cleanly and efficiently. All is again peaceful in the bee yard.....
Cheers, Bill

Offline Jen

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9729
  • Thanked: 187 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Upper California
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2017, 02:34:40 pm »
Let there be Beace In The Queendom


There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2017, 03:41:31 pm »
Riverbee I forgot to add that wings were between 7mm and just over 8mm long on several we measured for reference.
Cheers, Bill
The following users thanked this post: riverbee

Offline badly stung

  • Regular Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Northern Arizona
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2017, 04:54:09 pm »
Were did you get the sulfur?

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2114
  • Thanked: 188 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas Ozarks, U.S.A.
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2017, 05:11:16 pm »
Sorry for your loss but glad it worked out.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 06:35:17 pm »
Were did you get the sulfur?

Ace Hardware.... 90% pure for organic gardening.
Cheers, Bill

Offline Chip Euliss

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Thanked: 56 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Jamestown, ND
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2017, 09:40:43 pm »
Late to the party as always but it sounds like you found an effective solution.  There is an alternate way, if you're interested, in case it happens again.  I've had AHB hives returned to me from down south and they are basically impossible to re-queen with gentle stock in my view.  After beating my head against the wall, I came up with a system that worked well for me.  Suit up and tear the "bad" break the hive down into 2 boxes if you can't or don't want to take the time and lumps to find the queen.  Leave 1 box where it was and move the "split" box a short distance away, maybe 40 yards or so.  The old grumpy bees will go back to the original location after a day or so.  Check the box you moved to see if there are eggs after 4 days.  If you find eggs in the box you moved, put it back at the original location and move the original bottom box where you moved the "split".  What you want is to have the queen and the old grumpy bees in one box at the original location and only nurse bees and brood in the other.  To do that, the queen has to be in the original location.  Re-queen the box that has AHB nurse bees and brood with a good gentle queen--nurse bees are more accepting of a new queen.  Once the new queen is laying well, reverse the boxes again.  That will result in the AHB workers from the original location going into the hive you re-queened--wait a day or so for them to relocate.  The original box (now at the location of your "split" box) will now contain the old queen, nurse bees, and some AHB workers that hatched since you started the operation.  It will be easier to find the queen and kill her than with the larger population of angry bees you had at their original location.  You can either re-queen the hive that contained the old queen (may not work because that hive will now have adult AHB bees) or you could join them to your newly re-queened hive over a piece of newspaper; you'd loose some AHB workers (that would be my preference) but not a great loss.  In your situation, I would use a bred queen versus a cell because there are likely many AHB drones there to breed another problem for you.  The hives will still be grumpy as long as there are AHB genetics but the behavior of the hive(s) will improve as European bees start to dominate the population within the hive(s).  They are a pain and I only had a couple of years that I had to deal with them and I'm pleased it hasn't repeated itself.  From my experience, trying to re-queen a AHB hive is a waste of money.  I kept bred queens caged for many days before release and they still killed everyone I tried to add.  Nurse bees, even of AHB stock are much easier to deal with.

I hear your pain on aggressive bees.  I dealt with mine when I had all my bees in one huge yard (400+ colonies) that I use to manipulate them after they return from out west and just before they go to outyards here.  The pheromones from AHB quickly spreads to other hives and the whole holding yard is suddenly a very unhappy place.  I just finished putting in MAQS in about 500 hives, wearing only a light bee jacket and crocs--my everyday beekeeping outfit.  I was stung maybe 5-6 times but from bees that got inside my crocs.  When we had the AHB problem, it was a full suit and boots--not fun!  My wife had to wear a bee suit when she was outside in the garden, over 100 yards away.

Good luck and be safe :)
Chip
The following users thanked this post: Nugget Shooter

Offline riverbee

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8924
  • Thanked: 410 times
  • Gender: Female
  • ***Forum Sponsor***
  • Location: El Paso Twp, Wisconsin
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 11:50:02 pm »
thanks for your thread and posts on this nugget and your post/description of how you used the sulfur. this educates all of us and will help other beeks in the future for those that find themselves with a problematic hive as yours and wondering what to do.
i am sure that this was not pleasant for you, but again a responsible decision on your part.

Riverbee I forgot to add that wings were between 7mm and just over 8mm long on several we measured for reference.

nugget, i do not know the average length of a european honey bees wing vs the length of an africanized honey bee wings length OR a hybrid between the two. apisbees at one time posted the length of an ahb wing length. (shorter than 9.2 millimeters most likely ahb, longer than 9.2 millimeters, most likely aggressive european bees). now i am curious about this.........
will send off an email or two to those that probably know.

again thanks for your thread!

EDIT AND ADD....OOPS!
your question.....
"Will the bees clean these out (dead brood) if given the frames in other hives?"

yes they will. you could try to gently tap/shake the frames to remove the dead brood (unsealed) as much as you can, but the bees will clean out and polish the cells.
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
Forum Sponsor
The following users thanked this post: Nugget Shooter

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2114
  • Thanked: 188 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas Ozarks, U.S.A.
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2017, 12:26:33 am »
I looked it up and evidentially a cheap and dirty AHB test is forewing length. Greater than 9.070mm is most likely EHB. Less than 8.954mm are suspected AHB and it is recommended they be sent of for DNA analysis. Clearly yours fell in the suspect category.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2017, 09:24:08 am »
Sure does appear that way on wing length Riverbee and Neil, again I think it was best not to take the risk of trying to split or re-queen since in a fairly well populated area here. On a good note I am sure it is just my imagination, but all the hives seem calmer now and it sure is nice not getting stung for just walking by  :yes:
Cheers, Bill
The following users thanked this post: riverbee

Offline Jen

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9729
  • Thanked: 187 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Upper California
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2017, 11:54:48 am »
Exactly Nug! Such a sigh of relief
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline badly stung

  • Regular Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Northern Arizona
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2017, 01:43:34 pm »
I'm wondering how toxic to a beek an accidental whiff of that sulfur smoke would be.

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2017, 05:47:51 pm »
I'm wondering how toxic to a beek an accidental whiff of that sulfur smoke would be.

Use a mask as you would treating with OAV.... Sulphur itself is NOT dangerous. Sulphur in gaseous state doesn't exist, because it reacts with oxygen in air (Unless you have a vacuum in your room ;) ) The compounds of Sulphur ARE dangerous, especially Sulphur Dioxide. In small quantity, it is going to give you a choking feeling and you will not be able to bear it. In excess, such as a closed room it can lead to permanent respiratory problems, death due to choking, or even death because of cardiovascular problem.
Cheers, Bill

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3673
  • Thanked: 305 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2017, 08:38:52 am »
I just read this thread.  I was wondering if your smoker will contain any residual sulfur after this?  Or did the sulfur all burn off?
Glad you fixed your problem.

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2114
  • Thanked: 188 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas Ozarks, U.S.A.
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2017, 01:42:00 pm »
Have seen some stingers at 30 yards.  Twgos , denim blue jeans I've read calms hot bees.
I've not tried it.

Mikey, My curiosity is killing me, what does twgos mean? :)
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2017, 05:50:44 pm »
I just read this thread.  I was wondering if your smoker will contain any residual sulfur after this?  Or did the sulfur all burn off?
Glad you fixed your problem.

There is much residue left BD and I will now only use this old smoker for those rare times I may have to do this again. I tried burning it out with a torch, but still more left. I have a second smoker for working the bees and will not reuse the other for general smoking now....
Cheers, Bill

Offline riverbee

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8924
  • Thanked: 410 times
  • Gender: Female
  • ***Forum Sponsor***
  • Location: El Paso Twp, Wisconsin
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2017, 10:34:31 pm »
nugget............

did not know this? about the sulfur residue, and burning it out with a propane torch did not work?  thx bakers for asking and thx nugget for the reply!
curious as to why the residue still remains in the smoker?  anyone?
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
Forum Sponsor

Offline Jen

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9729
  • Thanked: 187 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Upper California
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2017, 12:08:31 am »
Um well, when I sulfered one of my hives a couple years ago, Iddee guided me thru that. He said that there is no sulfer residue after 48 hours.
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline Nugget Shooter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 512
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Nugget Shooter
  • Location: Arizona's Sonoran Desert in Growing Zone 9b
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2017, 10:14:17 am »
Riverbee, I could probably get it burned out with more work, but I am more comfortable not using this smoker anymore for regular use. There is a crusty black residue  mixed with the old wood tar like residue that when heated with the torch gives of a orange yellow smoke smelling strongly of SO2.

Jen, everything in the hive was SO2 free within a day and no smell or residue in hive as iddee said....
Cheers, Bill

Offline CBT

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
  • Thanked: 79 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Age gets better with wine
  • Location: Sandhills of North Carolina
Re: Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2017, 11:04:39 am »
Way late for this one. I have been told to destroy a hive use 1 cup dish soap in a 5 gallon bucket make lots of suds and pour in the hive. The suds are suppose to clog their breathing tubes.