Perhaps I Spoke Too Soon? Use of Sulfur to Destroy Aggressive Hive

[Nugget Shooter]

Good morning All, got my first real mobbing from one of our feral hives today during inspection, I mean bees all over me and stung through the gloves many times, but not through the suit and got my very first case of rash from stings on my belly and chest now almost gone. On a good note my arthritis is not bothering me now  I have had even my Italians go angry and attack once in a while, but this hive was always more active during inspection, but not really aggressive. Now though it is 2 deeps booming with brood and they are filling a honey super as well as lots of stores both pollen and honey.

It was about 8:30am which is earlier than I usually go into the hives and after a good smoking and inspecting the top medium I started into top deep and after the 6th frame they exploded into action with me as the target  It has me wondering if perhaps the AHB genes I was bragging of not seeing in our feral captures are present in these bees as they are from South of us where I am always hesitant to go on calls . Like I said I have been stung and chased before once the bees tire of me molesting their home, but never like this and they chased me further than I have seen trying to sting all the way. I went into the yard and a bunch followed me and even stung the dogs a few times. Then leaving for work I was chased to the truck 

So this leads me to a question and I am aware I may have just caught them in a bad moment as I have read many times here, what is the direction one goes if in fact a large colony goes mean and getting to the queen is almost impossible due to the bees being overly aggressive? I feel as though she needs to be replaced perhaps? I do plan to wait and see after they settle down how the next inspection goes, but right now anyone getting close is chased away. This is a first for me and looking for input about your experiences with hives that are "hot" and what steps can be taken? Just trying to gather info in case they are AHB influenced and I have to let this hive go or fix the problem in the coming future....

[Les]

Certainly not an expert but everything I have read or viewed on video indicates that queen has to go.

[yes2matt]

This is from memory, but I can't remember where I read it.
AHB
> are physically smaller
> hold their wings more erect, not flat on the back
> scurry more under smoke.

I think may bee it was in the Sammataro book, there is a whole list of identifiers.  https://www.amazon.com/Beekeepers-Handbook-Diana-Sammataro/dp/0801476941


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[riverbee]

nugget this sounds to me like ahb genetics. i keep russians, they can be aggressive, but not the aggression you are describing. i am concerned about the rash developing away from where you were stung.

if you can requeen.  my guess is, you will be unable to. no amount of smoke will help you find the queen without the aggression.

we have a member here from florida who dealt with ahb genetics in his hives 'cracker'. i will send him a pm with a link to your thread/ and also find his old threads on this and post the link nugget.

i can't remember all the specifics now. i don't remember if he successfully requeened any, or had to destroy. i also think his bees were tested?  perhaps perry or g3 will remember, but he went through what you are describing and more.

[Perry]

Wait till mid-day when half the bees are gone and find the queen. Replace her.
Cracker had a hive go ballistic and they stung and killed a bunch of his chickens.

[riverbee]

nugget,
i contacted cracker, hope he chimes in.  here is the thread he started here on this forum on his second go round with AHB:

AHB AGAIN UGGGGGGH!!!!!!!

cracker's first go round with ahb was on another forum, i will go over, find it, and post for ya!

[riverbee]

nugget,
i found cracker's thread on the old forum for you, there are two:

Assassins from the apairy(a sad story)

It's official...they were ahb

hope this helps!

[Nugget Shooter]

Interesting reading Riverbee and what I was looking for.... Seems sulfur powder is also available many places and even Amazon. Now learning what I can and may send off some samples.... Always looking to be safe especially since I live near an elementary school. Now though all is again calm, but wow I will not forget that for a while and darn glad I always suit up as that could have went bad for this old fool 

[Nugget Shooter]

riverbee, is the brood spared doing this or does it die off as well?

[Mikey N.C.]

Bees get hot if there's something wrong to.

[riverbee]

nugget, brood dies off as well.  i hope cracker chimes in. wealth of info on this from his own experience. 

i hope this is not the case for you, but i suspect otherwise.

[Nugget Shooter]

I am trying to find if there is anyplace that checks this with a sample sent near to me and I would hate to jump to conclusions when I simply caught them at a bad time...

[Mikey N.C.]

Have seen some stingers at 30 yards.   Twgos , denim blue jeans I've read calms hot bees.
I've not tried it.

[Mikey N.C.]

Should have explained.  Old blue jeans in smoker.

[Cracker]

What I've heard,is Arizona is a real hot spot for AHB.The 2 instances I had(other when I actually had AHB) was what the state inp. said when I had a problem with aggressive bees,is that in warm winters (like we have here in Fl.)bees make it through the winter and are old(like me)grumpy "Field Bees".She said they when it warms up they die off and soon the colony calms down,which mine did.
 The other time a fried of mine Rick experienced the same thing,only with his case his nighbor was mowing behind a 6' wood panel fence,and put her in the hospital.They threatened to sue if the bees weren't removed,even after the colony was DNA(the only way to tell besides the wing measure test)test negative.I ened up taking the 2 colonies,and still have both and that was 3 years ago.
 The best advice I can give is to get your state inspector involved,and let them determine if the bees are AHB.

[Nugget Shooter]

The state of Arizona a has no inspection program, I will have to look into if one can be requested.

[Wandering Man]

Have seen some stingers at 30 yards.   Twgos , denim blue jeans I've read calms hot bees.
I've not tried it.

Is that because the bees are too busy laughing at your skinny pale legs while your britches are burning in the smoker to sting?

[Nugget Shooter]

WOW, didn't even get close to the hive this morning and got popped 2 times just now from the "hot" hive. Thinking they have to go sadly. More questions on using sulfur... Is the drawn comb still usable after bees are smoked? Is honey useable for other hives or safe to eat? Is the woodenware reusable? I am guessing the sulfur is only deadly if they breathe it in? I have no State inspector here to help ID AHB as AZ does not do this and at this point in my "bee schooling" I agree that this hive is AHB and needs to go now that they have gone mean. It is the only colony I cutout from the South of us and I am thinking I will no longer do these removals....

[Nugget Shooter]

They have gone totally insane  anyone getting within 50 feet is stung instantly, my daughter just got nailed and one of the neighbors. I am amazed at how in one day they have totally flipped out and are even going after the dogs.

[badly stung]

It's unreal how mean those AHBs can be. I found that finding the queen is almost impossible with the way the bees scurry around on the frames and launch wave after wave of attacks each time a frame is pulled out. If you spit the hive up into small colonies it helps alot to calm them down, but I've decided the extremely aggressive hives aren't worth the trouble to try and requeen.

You could suck up most of the bees off the frames with a shop vac that has soapy water inside. Once most are gone those that are left flying seem to calm down quite a bit, or maybe they have left their stingers in your beesuit and are defenseless.