So Now What?

[PappyRick]

Long story short: I am a Newbee.  Loaded a nuc 3 days ago (my first), had 6 queen cells (destroyed them all), checkerboarded the frames, provided 1:1 syrup, concerned about swarming, inspected the hive today (4/18).
 
So, as expected, there were about 6 queen cells being produced in today's inspection.  I did not remove any of them.  Replenished the syrup, about 1 gallon.  With respect to the "checkerboarding" we did actually leave two frames of brood from the original nuc together in the center.  Bees are working the new foundation frames and building out comb well.  Very strong colony, tons of bees.  I brought a deep, thinking that I might need to add it to the mix, but with the bees still working the new frames, it didn't make sense to me to add the extra deep, so we didn't.  Bees were very calm today, and nobody got stung (which was a good thing).  It was very close to that zen-like feeling I have been looking for. 

The swarming concern still exists.  Obviously, if the girls are building queen cells, there is something amiss.  I removed the queen cells when we loaded the nucs, did not remove them this time.  We did not find the queen today.  She was not marked prior to loading the nuc, but the colony does not look queenless to me (but what do I know).  Do I just brace for a swarm, or can I do something to prevent it?  I don't think I'm ready (since my experience at beekeeping is currently measured in days) to split.

Since I haven't lost any bees at this point, I'm not really in panic mode, but I am trying to figure out what I can do to help my colony out.  So, I turn to my new-found friends in the beekeeping world.   Thanks in advance. 

I will say that this was my very first "solo" inspection (although my significant other was with me - who has the same level of experiences as me), and IT WAS AWESOME.  PappyRick

[Perry]

Where on the frames are these queen cells located? Their location will tell you a lot about what is going on. Riverbee has a post about identifying the different types of queen cells and what they mean.
If the cells are all located along the bottom bars of frames it is likely they are swarm cells. If they are located on the "face" of the combs, the odds are they are either supercedure or emergency queen cells, where the bees have sought out the age appropriate eggs/larvae, wherever they happen to be located.

[PappyRick]

Perry, the queen cells are a combination of both.  Probably about 4 of them were on the bottom of a frame, while there were a couple on the face of the frame.  As mentioned in an earlier post, we had taken out 6 queen cells when we loaded the nuc last Saturday.  The queen cells in the nuc were similar in that most were on the bottom, but there were a couple on the face of the frames.  I have printed the link Riverbee sent in the previous post.  PappyRick

[Perry]

I guess if it were me (be careful  ) I would nick off all but the 2 best looking cells and let nature take its course. Too many queens hatching can sometimes result in after swarms, or secondary swarms.
Tough call, but that's the beauty of this thing we do, it's always challenging.

[PappyRick]

Thanks Perry.  I am planning on going back out probably Sunday.  By then I ought to know what is happening with these cells.  This last trip was 3 days after we removed all of the queen cells, and they basically built them all back up.  We did not find the queen, but the queen is not marked, there are a bunch of bees, and my inexperience all contributed to not finding her.  As I mentioned earlier, being new at this, I don't have extra equipment or experience to try a split yet.  Maybe next year.  So, what does a "best" queen cell look like?

[Perry]

Best to me usually means the "biggest", but you also have a few other considerations to keep in mind. If the cell is located in an area that could get damaged when putting the frame back in or taking it out I would eliminate those. Frames along the bottom of frames are susceptible to being crushed by accident unless care is used.
If the cell is a decent one and located in a "safe" spot on a frame I keep those. Again, this is just how I do it, nothing written in stone.

[riverbee]

these are just my thoughts on what is going on.......

your original thread here (for others to read and follow along)

Rocky Start

question 1: what breed of bees are these?
question 2: cups or cells? 

comments:
as i said before bees will rebuild cups/cells if you cut them out, and bees will build cups and elongate the cups to cells.
first year queens and just purchased nucs typically don't swarm, unless they are really cramped and the queen is older, or there is some other anomaly going on.

if bees are building cups/cells on the face of the comb i would leave these alone
another question..........on the bottoms of the frames, are these cups or cells? 

"if the girls are building queen cells, there is something amiss"

again, cups or cells?
bees will tend to build cups for 'just in case' purposes.

pappyrick, although you cannot find the queen, do you see eggs and larvae?

[PappyRick]

I can see from the questions on my posts that this forum will teach me a lot.  Thank you folks for that!!  I must read a lot more than I have, become more inquisitive and observant in my inspections, and take pictures and learn how to post them.

RB,  The bees in my hives are Italian.  I have not seen the queen in the hive that is causing my concern.  I "think" I have seen eggs (but I'm old - and have old eyes), so I believe that the hive is not currently queenless.  As to the Q cups or cells,  I had removed all that we found when we transferred the nuc, and the last inspection (referenced in this post) was about 3 full days later.  There certainly were some cups, but I honestly don't know if they were "cells", since I don't know the difference - yet.  I was figuring that I will go back out probably on Sunday, which will be eight days from the time I took out the original cells.  I was thinking this would give me a good idea of where they are.  As I recall, eight days is when they would be looking to seal the cell if there is a developing queen.  At that point, my current thinking is that I would take Perry's advice and probably remove all but the "best" cell.

I also have a screened bottom board with a solid pullout panel.  I have not pulled the panel yet.  Was thinking I probably need to give them more ventilation.  I do have a slatted rack and a vented inner cover, with the small opening on the entrance reducer.  Temps around here have ranged from mid 50s to low 80s.  Should I completely remove the panel or slide it halfway out?

Pappy

[Perry]

Halfway on the slat so you don't create a drastic change in temp, and try and leave 2 cells, not just one.

[riverbee]

pappyrick, i can help you with posting pictures.......let me know, just send me a pm!

eggs can be hard to see, i too have old eyes..........many of us do. i use cheaters, and sometimes a magnifier, some beeks also use a small flashlight, also, put the frame with the sun against your back.  larvae? do you have larvae? (much easier to identify).  if you have larvae, you have a queen.

cups vs cells..........cups are short, cup shaped and open........cells are elongated; peanut shaped and longer, typically on the face of the frames or frame bottoms.

ventilation, i do not use screened bottom boards, i use full bottom boards. i would not be concerned about the ventilation, and would leave what you have going alone for now......that's just my HO. perhaps others who use these can chime in, and like perry said, don't create a drastic change in temp. what are your night time temps?  try not to create more work for them to maintain temps needed to rear and cover brood.

[Lburou]

Halfway on the slat so you don't create a drastic change in temp, and try and leave 2 cells, not just one.

Once, I left only one cell and it was a dud.  Two cells gives you an excellent chance that you will get a queen hatched and ready to mate.  The mating percentages take over then. 

[vvand111]

I learned a lot from Perry and L about what I employed today.  I picked the " best looking cell". Made sure I had 2 of them before moving these frames into the queen castle. I guess I will know in about 12 to 15 days.  I have been very patient on the last 2 I put in the castle.  I should know about those 2 by Thursday of next week. 

[Lburou]

...Made sure I had 2 of them before moving these frames into the queen castle...

That sounds good to me.  There is something else we haven't mentioned yet that can ruin that plan.  It involves the vulnerability of prepupa in the cell for the first three days after the queen cell is capped.

I learned about this when one of the beautiful queens I had grafted hatched with no wings     Probably due to a bump or tilt while I handled the frame with her queen cell during that three day window.  Bummer.  I make it a point to handle frames with queen cells especially carefully.  No bumps,  tilts or jostling of any kind when the cells are capped, especially when I don't know when they were capped. 

Not trying to make you worry, just continuing your education...   

[vvand111]

I greatly appreciate that. I will be sure to be cognizant of that in the future.  Wow what a road. The learning and the experience never stops. I am loving it.  I will let you guys know what I find in my castle next week. 

[vvand111]

Good luck with it all Pappy.  Listen to these guys and you will learn all you can absorb.  They are the only reason for my success through my first year.

Great forum. If you go on others as I did early it is amazing how hostile folks are. I have never seen that here. That is why I landed here.

[Nugget Shooter]

Good thread....  Yep old eyes here too.

[riverbee]

"Listen to these guys and you will learn all you can absorb.  They are the only reason for my success through my first year.

Great forum. If you go on others as I did early it is amazing how hostile folks are. I have never seen that here. That is why I landed here."

and listen to the gals?............
thanks for what you said vandy, i appreciate it. admins and mods pride ourselves on our friendly environment; we don't tolerate hostility, being snarky, trolls or drive by posts too well, it's not what this forum is about. there are no favorites, and you won't get banned/scolded for speaking up. we have no 'celebrity posters' perhaps because we have a moral compass and a different ethic. those that do have extensive experience here do not revel in braggadocio. we are all here to share and learn, help another beek. criticism and hostility are not really very good teaching tools, and in my opinion, teaches absolutely nothing.......if ya want hostility and favoritism (favorite posters) to get away with, let fly with anything said and /or wanna disciplined private school or catholic school experience, it ain't here............

now back to pappyrick's thread...........

[Lburou]

...there are no favorites...

And I thought I was special rb...   

[PappyRick]

I agree that this is a great place to bounce my novice questions.  I greatly appreciate the insight from all.  My biggest problem (I'll say this now, and probably recant later), is things take too long.  I just loaded the nuc exactly one week ago.  Have checked it once, and it seems like a lifetime since I did.  I plan to go out tomorrow when the weather is a little more cooperative and see what it looks like.  I'll keep you posted.  Pappy

[tedh]

That's why Josh and I increased our hive count, if we were going to spend a week looking forward to inspection day it was going to last longer than 20 minutes.      Ted