Author Topic: Swarm (Read 8829 times)

beesbeesbees · « **on:** June 25, 2017, 09:42:58 pm »

Hi,
New beekeeper here and my bees swarmed today and I didn't see it coming.
I've been checking on them and spotted the queen doing her egg laying thing and noticed they had 4-5 queen cells which I cleaned off. I also noticed they were finally starting to work on frames 2 and 9 in both boxes for the first time so I added my first super on June 15th and was going to check them today when a neighbour (who loves to check on them) said they were seen swarming on the property today and now are nowhere to be found.
a) what should I have done differently?
b) do I just wait for 21 days for a new queen and hope for the best?
c) other thoughts?
Thanks,
Cher

CBT · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2017, 10:00:55 pm »

Welcome to the place to get your questions answered and give your opinion. You did nothing wrong it is a natural thing. Yes no one wants to loose bees. Better to learn on one hive than when you get ten. You gan learn the signs of a forthcoming swarm and take steps to make them feel like they swarmed and get new hive. I'll let others explain in more detail. Hope you share a little about yourself.

Les · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2017, 10:19:38 pm »

Cleaning off the queen cells will not stop the swarming. Once they have it in their little heads they are going to swarm they will go. If you had split the hive in early Spring, this probably would have prevented the swarm.

Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2017, 10:40:45 pm »

Hi bsbsbs

Your talking to the swarm queen here. Splitting does help keep the swarming down, but it's not a guarantee. I have tried several suggestions to help prevent swarming. But like Les said, once they have their minds set, they are going to go, and we beeks stand there and scratch our heads wondering "What... wha... I just took all the q cells out of there!"

And against many beekeepers beliefs, I don't mind when my hives swarm. If I can catch them that's cool. But if I can't then I don't mind if they go back out to nature and nest in a nice log. It's also good for controlling mites.

Here's a splendid idea. If you see a swarm just starting to leave the hive... stand right in the middle of it. Seriously, it's just magical to watch and hear.

Perry · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2017, 06:21:03 am »

It happens, despite many of our efforts to prevent it.
Cleaning off queen cells achieves little, in fact you may be removing the replacements for the original queen when she leaves.

I remove queen "cups", the empty practice cups bees seem to build everywhere, especially along the bottom of frames. But once those cups are "loaded", that is with and egg or young larvae, I immediately try and find the queen and remove both her and 4 or 5 frames of bees and brood (minus any loaded cells) and fool the hive into thinking it has swarmed. During May and June I check hives roughly ever 10 days to try and prevent swarming.

beesbeesbees · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2017, 06:58:04 am »

Thanks everyone,
Good to know I have a plan for next time.
My neighbour said it was a fantastic show, just sorry i missed it.

gibb · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2017, 08:37:17 am »

Since your hive has swarmed you will need to watch for a new queen. This sets your hive back a lot since the new queen has to hatch and then mate before she can start laying eggs.
You may want to purchase a new queen?
Do you know if there are any queen cells in the hive right now?

beesbeesbees · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2017, 11:38:50 pm »

Yes, there are four queen cells.
They have had since the 11th to make them so I'm hopeful but not confident

Perry · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2017, 06:42:06 am »

At this point you should already have a virgin running around in there so I would hold off purchasing a queen for now, too little time benefit for the cost. Be patient, let time work for you.

beesbeesbees · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2017, 09:57:54 pm »

Lots of Queen Piping in the hive the last two days. Fingers crossed!

Lburou · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2017, 12:16:45 am »

Quote from: beesbeesbees on July 04, 2017, 09:57:54 pm

Lots of Queen Piping in the hive the last two days. Fingers crossed!

That much queen piping probably means you have more than one queen in there. A good thing, unless you have an after swarm and one of the virgin queens takes off with another group of bees.

Perry · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2017, 07:22:09 am »

Good news.

beesbeesbees · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2017, 12:18:21 pm »

And Lburou nailed it... New queen just swarmed with more bees.

At least I got to hear piping queens for the first time

Suggestions?

beesbeesbees · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2017, 09:36:28 pm »

Two swarms (that I know of) in 10 days plus a split (3 frames into a nuc) and there still looks like there are a descent number of bees in the hive.
I'm still hearing piping so I'm guessing I could still see another new queen bee and therefore maybe another swarm.
I put out a swarm trap with some lemongrass oil just in case.
Not sure if I should have left the number of queen cells that i did, in the hive or not. How many do people usually leave or do they leave them all and let the hive sort it out?
Thanks

Lburou · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2017, 09:53:16 pm »

Quote from: beesbeesbees on July 05, 2017, 09:36:28 pm

...How many queen cells do people usually leave or do they leave them all and let the hive sort it out?
Thanks

After taking frames with queen cells to start NUCs (IF that is what you want to do), I leave two cells. (keep in mind here, it is very difficult to find ALL the queen cells when bees are covering the frames). There is still a risk of another after swarm if both queens hatch and one leaves, but the risk is acceptable to me. JMO

apisbees · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2017, 02:35:33 am »

I know many disagree with me but I only leave one. You only need 1 queen in a hive. Leaving more can lead to cast swarms. But as I do this I also will pull a nuc or 2 and will leave them with a cell also so they can also raise themselves a queen. This add the insurance that if the the colony cell doesn't come back mated and starts to lay, I should have a backup queen in one of the nucs that can be added to the colony.

Lburou · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2017, 10:28:42 am »

Quote from: apisbees on July 07, 2017, 02:35:33 am

I know many disagree with me but I only leave one. You only need 1 queen in a hive. Leaving more can lead to cast swarms. But as I do this I also will pull a nuc or 2 and will leave them with a cell also so they can also raise themselves a queen. This add the insurance that if the the colony cell doesn't come back mated and starts to lay, I should have a backup queen in one of the nucs that can be added to the colony.

Apis, I do agree your method gives the beekeeper more control of the outcome than chancing a swarm. It is just that I've had so many queen cells that never hatch.

apisbees · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2017, 02:00:35 pm »

I agree with you. the frame with cells along the bottom of a frame left in a double hive with lots of bee to incubate them is will all hatch. Move that frame in to a nuc with to few bees to keep the cells warm and they get chilled and die. I do what I do with some knowledge of what works in my area and in what conditions. but the main thing is to provide enough bees to cover where the brood and cells are on the frame and also on the adjacent frames.
For cells in nucs I like the cells to be up on the side of the frames closer to the top bar The bees seem to look after them better.

Perry · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2017, 05:28:18 pm »

Quote from: apisbees on July 07, 2017, 02:00:35 pm

I agree with you. the frame with cells along the bottom of a frame left in a double hive with lots of bee to incubate them is will all hatch. Move that frame in to a nuc with to few bees to keep the cells warm and they get chilled and die. I do what I do with some knowledge of what works in my area and in what conditions. but the main thing is to provide enough bees to cover where the brood and cells are on the frame and also on the adjacent frames.
For cells in nucs I like the cells to be up on the side of the frames closer to the top bar The bees seem to look after them better.

Good to know!

apisbees · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2017, 02:31:38 pm »

I managed to loose a couple of cells fairly late in the spring when I put press in screens over a couple of cells. the cells were with in a day and a half of emerging and to save both cells that were on the same frame when hatching I put a screen over each. but that night it got cold and the screen kept the bees from keeping the cells incubated. and there where not enough bees in the nuc to protect both the brood and queen cells.