Patio hive frame implant surgery 2013

[Jen]

It will be interesting to hear the responses in this thread. This is my brood box. The first pic is the 'patio hive' that I started with three years ago. three years later (last year) it was a hive gone wild and was desperate for expansion. It swarmed two times before I was able to get it into the langstroth/plastic frames, yuk, but I didn't have time to argue.

I didn't want to keep the colony in the patio hive because I couldn't buy components for it. Worldofbeeking.com helped me with this idea last spring to keep the colony intact and the frames in the same order until winter when I could switch out to wood/wax frames. The suggestion was to insert and wire the patio hive frames into the plastic longstroth frames.

Hopefully it won't be long until the next 65 day when I can replace the 'insert plastic frames' to wood frames with wired wax foundation.












This last pic was taken maybe 6 weeks later showing how the bees addapted to the inserts

[Perry]

Sometimes you just have to improvise, and I think that was a pretty neat idea. 

[efmesch]

1. Thank you for the included pictures.  Without them I wouldn't have undeerstood what you were talking about.
2. In picture #5, as I undesrtand it, you placed a langstroth sized hive body above your smaller hive, using a plywood board as an "adapter" between the two.  IMHO, you could have saved yourself a lt of unecessary work, past and future, if you had simply placed the uncut langstroth plastic frames above the original hive and let them build into them. Later on, (this year) you would be able to replace the plastic hives with wooden ones and wax foundation.   But, what is done, is done.  Now it will be your task to replace these "hybrid" frames as the family builds during this season's activity.  Move the emptiest frames to the sides and as they empty out, remove them and place new wanted frames in between built frames--but don't separate brood in the process.

[LazyBkpr]

That was a pretty slick Idea!!   I dont even think i would be in a great rush to swap them out.  Rotate a new frame in every two weeks..  Pull the outside frame, slide all frames over one, slide a new frame in with whatever foundation you like.  Next inspection, rotate another one in etc...  Gives the bees time to emerge from the frame that gets moved over, and by the time its on the outside edge it will be ready to pull out.
   Ef's idea would work too.   Let them move into the new box. Put an excluder on between them when your sure the queen is in the new box, let the bees emerge and take theold box away..   However, the way you did it looks to have worked exceptionally well.
    I will add that idea to my arsenal of tricks.

[Jen]

Clarification: I will be keeping the deep brood box for now. I just want to replace the plastic frames with the implants ... to new wood frames w/wax foundation.

Sooo, this time of year there isn't any brood or eggs or larvae in the deep brood box. But it hasn't been warm enough to take the top deep off and inspect the bottom brood box. Queen isn't laying yet.... I'm assuming.... and we all know what that means.
 
Sooo, what would happen if, on the next warm day, I take the top super off and just replace all the plastic with my new wood/wax frames... All at once? Put the top super back on. Done

I'm thinking that the only difference here is that I'll be taking out all pulled wax frames and replacing with fresh new foundation.

And by the way, Thanks to all of you who put up with all my questions ~   

[G3farms]

Looks like you had a 5 frame mini mating nuc.
Where did you come up with that?
I am still lost on where the bottom hive came from though??? Missed something!

[dr4ngas]

What is a patio bee hive? I am new to this field and trying to figure out what type of hive to start with.

[Edward]

When you're done you can pull the wooden frames out of the plastic frames, turn every other plastic frame 180o and the bees will more than likely fill the gap with new comb in the empty space.


mvh Edward 

[iddee]

Welcome,    dr4ngas.

I think a patio hive is something jen got stuck with and now has regrets. I have never heard of one.

[Edward]

Maybee its a hive on the patio just for fun to Watch the bees coming and going 


mvh Edward 

[Jen]

G3 ""Looks like you had a 5 frame mini mating nuc. Where did you come up with that? I am still lost on where the bottom hive came from though??? Missed something!

 I got it from one of our local beeks in our area, he designed them for people who just want a little honey for themselves and less maintainance beekeeping. I got it because I just needed my own bees for Bee Venom Therapy. Little did I know how far the bees were going to take me. Funny how they do that... 

The hive that you see under the black plastic frames is the patio hive. Because the patio hive had already swarmed two times, we thought it might be best to put the plywood with the cut out over the opened patio hive, and then the langstroth and frames on next, then the lid. and let the bees orient with the new brood box before we did the inserts. This decision was to calm the bees down and halt the swarming. It didn't. They swarmed a third time. Crazy

[Jen]

Dr4- A beekeeper in our area makes them for people who want a small hobby hive. He builds the boxes and frames. I don't think there is anything commercial out there like this little hive box. And I wouldn't recommend it. Too hard to find components for it.

[Jen]

Ed ""When you're done you can pull the wooden frames out of the plastic frames, turn every other plastic frame 180o and the bees will more than likely fill the gap with new comb in the empty space.""

    I would do that if I wanted to use plastic frames. I'm in the process of replacing all plastic with wood and wax frames.

Ed ""Maybee its a hive on the patio just for fun to Watch the bees coming and going""

    Yes, that's the idea that the maker had in mind, just for fun. 

[Jen]

Jen asked this earlier in the day:

Clarification: I will be keeping the deep brood box for now. I just want to replace the plastic frames with the implants ... to new wood frames w/wax foundation.

Sooo, this time of year there isn't any brood or eggs or larvae in the deep brood box. But it hasn't been warm enough to take the top deep off and inspect the bottom brood box. Queen isn't laying yet.... I'm assuming.... and we all know what that means.
 
Sooo, what would happen if, on the next warm day, I take the top super off and just replace all the plastic with my new wood/wax frames... All at once? Put the top super back on. Done

I'm thinking that the only difference here is that I'll be taking out all pulled wax frames and replacing with fresh new foundation.

[LazyBkpr]

I am going to go out on a limb here.. a small one at that Jen...

   If.. the frames in question are EMPTY, no pollen, no honey etc, and the bees are not clustered in those frames, then I would agree that it would be of little harm, depending on your temps.
   Depending on your temperatures there.. to remove the frames the bees are clustered on could be quite disastrous. Having the hive open long enough to replace frames might be counter productive. the prying and wiggling to get the frames loose and out will disturb the cluster..
   I don't know the temps or the situation there, but I wouldn't do it right now. I wouldn't even get in a hurry to replace the frames. There is nothing there harmful or even greatly detrimental to the bees. They will be perfectly happy with those plastic frames with inserts until they are given something else. As mentioned, if the inserts were removed, (during warm weather and a flow) they would quite likely fill in the holes and keep right on going without skipping a beat.. 

   Not sure where I read it, but the gist of it was..  if in doubt, do nothing.   I have found that when I messed up, if I had followed that advice I would have been MUCH better off.. but, of course, I didnt learn anything by being overly cautious..   
   I want to get into my hives pretty bad, but it was drilled into me by an ornery wise old fellow that once buttoned up for the winter the bees were best left alone.
   That statement was of course taking into account that "I" had allowed "THEM" to prepare themselves correctly for winter...
   So, having said that... Please let me know how it goes...   I've never been able to safely tell a female "I TOLD YOU SO!" and if it works out perfectly splendid, well I am used to having a female gloat over the fallen bloody form of my ego so no horrible loss there. 

[apisbees]

Jen Never take beekeeping advice from the guy that sold you that hive. It is a queen mating nuc. It is to small to keep bees in to keep them from swarming and to survive the winter. It is no wonder you've had so much trouble keeping bees. Get that small box off the hive. Rather than cut the frames to fit the comb in get 3/8" X 1" X 19" long sticks (top bar size) and screw 2 of the frames to the top bar size piece of wood. and place them in the Langstroth box with foundation frame in between the patched frames keep placing foundation in the center moving the small frames out to the side and when there is no more brood in them remove them from the hive.When I looked at the pictures and seen what you where sold and his description of it it upset me ( I got it from one of our local beeks in our area, he designed them for people who just want a little honey for themselves and less maintenance beekeeping). Having to try to keep bees from swarming because of to small of space is a lot more maintenance, as well as trying to get enough food and have the bee population to survive the winter. If you are getting some wood frames screw of wire the 1/2 frames to a wood top bar.
Sorry you had to go thru all this and the frustration it has caused you.

[efmesch]

To continue along the line of Apis's post, I would add: A hive that is too small can't be self-maintaining and certainly won't be able to produce the excess honey which is what a beek is allowed to take.  To take honey from a miniature hive like you had is the equivalent to causing them to die of starvation. 
You weren't sold a "patio hive", you were sold a "rooster and bull" story.   You would have done much better to have bought an observation hive, knowing in advance that they are bound to swarm and can't produce honey, but are fabulous for learning abaout bee behavior.

[Jen]

I knew it! I knew if I posted these pics from last spring that I would get some answers. Patio hive or queen mating nuc... whatever it is... I did tell the patio hive maker that I only needed bees for bee venom therapy, so naive to the bee world then. So that's what I got without any mentoring. How was I to know that they were going to starve over the winter. So yeah, in a way, I got duped, but I didn't know at the time how far the bees were going to take me....then. 

Thank goodness for my determination to succeed.

Season 1, patio hive died of winter starvation

Season 2, got TWO hives from patio hive maker, another patio hive and a langstroth deep. Langstroth deep came with AFB, went up in flames. Back to the patio hive again.

Season 3, patio hive made it thru the winter with blankets and tarp. Spring! Finally a light at the end of the tunnel. However, massive swarming erupted. This is when we inserted the small frames into the plastic frames, hopeful that the swarming would calm. It finally did.

So! The patio hive/queen mating nuc box was out of service last spring and put away in the shed. The bees from this small nuc box have been in this double deep all last summer and made it thru this winter. All I have had to deal with up to now is keeping the mites in check. WHEW!



So now you can understand why I'm pacing in front of this forum asking ten thousand questions every day. And, I keep telling my story because I know there are new readers everyday. Thanks for listening

[Slowmodem]

So now you can understand why I'm pacing in front of this forum asking ten thousand questions every day.

You really should get Beekeeping For Dummies.  I have it and I highly recommend it.  There are tons of books out there about beekeeping, but this will give you a solid foundation to build on.  Lots of basics that every beekeeper needs to know.

Also, you can look at Brushy Mountain's website education page.  Lots and lots of informative videos there about nearly every subject.

[Jen]

Thanks Slow! I heard that that is a good book to read