Author Topic: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen  (Read 2749 times)

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Offline Jen

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Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« on: August 24, 2017, 02:39:39 pm »
This is what happens when Jen joins a bee club, she turns into a Honeybee Assisted Living Facility  :D

I have a beek friend (I always start out this way) who has a top bar hive and the bees absconded a few weeks ago. Figuring the hive was empty of bees, she took off the lid to move the top bar hive to store behind the barn. Low and behold there was the queen and a handful of bees. This was last week and there were a few eggs, but nothing else.

She asked me if I wanted the queen. I said let me ask my forum a couple of questions first.

#1 - I remember once Iddee saying that if the queen isn't active and being cared for that she will loose her pheromones. Could this be a case for this queen offered to me?

#2 - Can a queen recall her pheromones if put in a right environment again? Like, a nuc with brood, food, laying room, more nurse bees?

#3 - I would like to make up a small nuc with 1 frame of brood and bees, plenty of food, and a frame to lay in as a trial effort. If this queen has been wandering around alone for awhile.. would it be possible to put her into a queen cage and introduce her to this trial nuc? Would she have to have pheromones to be excepted?

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Offline Les

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 03:50:18 pm »
Jen, you come up with the most interesting situations.  I will be watching the responses.

Offline neillsayers

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 04:09:57 pm »
Hmmmmmm? Tuned in!
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Offline Perry

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 04:22:24 pm »
I would, why not?
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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Offline Riverrat

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 05:11:42 pm »
nothing to lose at this point.  Go for it thats how we learn
"no man ever stood so tall as one that  stoops to help a child"

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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2017, 05:26:52 pm »
Jen,
If you're thinking TBar will not make it. I would try a nuc situation . you have nothing to lose. If they're standard lang. top bars ( frames) that fit in your nuc boxes . i would get the best of all frames ( even if they're wedge frames) it might work in nuc box. I personal wouldn't pass that opportunity up, it can bee an experiment.  Just feed,feed.

Offline Lburou

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 05:58:23 pm »
Jen, you describe the classic symptoms of Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) in your friend's failed hive.  The causes of CCD are not well understood.  Here is a quip from the USDA ARS Lab paper on CCD:

Quote from: ARS
FOCUS AREAS AS POSSIBLE CAUSES OF CCD:
Theories about the cause or causes of CCD include infection by bacteria, fungi, viruses, spiroplasmas or new pathogens such as a new Nosema (related to the microporidian giardia), the invasive varroa mite and pesticide poisoning (particularly by neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid). Stresses include poor nutrition (due to apiary overcrowding, pollination of crops with low nutritional value, or pollen or nectar dearth) and migratory stress brought about by the increased need to move bees long distances for pollination.   Stress could compromise the immune system of bees making colonies more susceptible to disease.  While CCD could be caused by a single factor it is also possible that multiple factors are working together to cause colony loss.

If you buy into the possibility that this hive failure was caused by insecticide exposure, or,  bacterial, fungal or virus infection, you may hesitate to risk resources on a questionable queen.  But, I think you should try it and report back to us.  :)
Lee_Burough
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2017, 06:07:51 pm »
The queen is from a topbar that has absconded. Only a queen and a few hundred bees left.
Take the queen and leave the bees Get her introduced to a frame of brood and shake in a extra frame of bees. It she is excepted add more frames in a week or so of brood and bees If not return the bees to a hive that could use them and nothing lost.
With just taking the queen all the other things Lburou should not enter into the equation. Clean bees on Clean comb. Not much is transferred thru the queen to the eggs other than genetics. then the nuc has 2 possible outcomes it ether flourishes or she dies.
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Offline Barbarian

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2017, 06:42:46 pm »
Jen  ...... From your posts you have had a lot of things happen with your bees.

I would suggest you pass on the offer. You could introduce a whole batch of new problems. Put your effort into organizing your own bees.
" Another Owd Codger "

Offline Jen

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 01:52:38 pm »
Update ~ Picture won't load. I have in my possession the queen that my friend offered me, got her last evening. I have her now in a queen cage with fondant. She made it thru the night. But her attendants are dead. I'm sure this sweet queen is hungry.

My friend jumped the gun and put her in a jar yesterday with four attendants and a piece of rag that was sugar water soaked.

Question: If I pull a mini nuc right now, these bees are going to still be used to the other queens pheromones and will attempt to kill this new queen. But I'm afraid that this queen is going to die if left in this cage and not fed.

Am I right in this assumption? Can I try and leave the cage on top of the mini nucs frames for a minute or two and see of they except her readily?



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Offline tedh

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 03:23:42 pm »
If you're making up a queenless nuc and if she (the queen) is in a queen cage can't you just introduce her as you would normally? Sticking the cage between 2 frames, check for her release in 3 days instead of dumping her in, hoping for acceptance?  Just a thought.  Ted
Share that which you have an abundance of.  In doing so both the giver and receiver are enriched.

Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2017, 04:04:08 pm »
If I'm not mistaken you can feed drops of honey.
Imho, pull mini? nuc.  a least a few days , so they know Qless.

Offline tedh

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2017, 04:13:23 pm »
Good call Mikey.
Share that which you have an abundance of.  In doing so both the giver and receiver are enriched.

Offline Jen

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2017, 04:22:08 pm »
Mikey, that was my original plan, to have the nuc established and queenless first, then go get the queen from my friend, bring her home and introduce the queen in her cage. But my friend gave me the queen too early. Her attendants are dead. Can she feed herself on my fondant and honey for a few days? That's where I'm unsure. It's my understanding that queens cannot feed themselves?

Photo Update, these photos were taken 1 hour after putting the queen cage on the top bars of my mini nuc. The bees' rumps are not down trying to sting the queen, I can sweep them off the face of the cage very easily, no aggression at all.

I'm very tempted to secure this queen cage between two frames and give it a shot. Not many bees in this nuc yet so it will take them awhile to unplug her anyway..  What do you think?

For some reason photo upload won't work today


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Offline CBT

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2017, 04:47:28 pm »
You can add the queened cage to the hive after 24 hrs and they will feed her. She can eat honey for a day.
When the queen hatches in the hatchery I give them a drop of honey until I can cage her and put fuzzy bees ( new young bees) from any hive with her as attendants. We try to let the queens arrive from their cell in a hive but sometimes I may be off a day or real busy.

Offline Jen

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2017, 05:13:02 pm »
Calvin, "She can eat honey for a day" ....So, you are saying that the queen can feed herself?
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 05:21:27 pm »
Calvin, "She can eat honey for a day" ....So, you are saying that the queen can feed herself?
Yes.
Lee_Burough

Offline Jen

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2017, 07:11:46 pm »
Thanks Lee, see I've always thought that that was one of the tasks of the nurse bees, was to keep feeding the queen so she could continuously lay. I like that the queen is not helpless  ;) 8)

Ted, That's what I thought for years myself. But the last two years I've been learning more about requeening, introducing queens, queens being balled, queens being killed in the cage. Also that last two years, I've learned how to make nucs for sale. Queening in precarious.

Calvin, the 24-48 hours thing sounds good to me.

This little gal has been alone for quite awhile from an absconded colony. I think she's hungry and lonely, so I'm giving her a little extra attention  :)



Seems very peaceful



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Offline apisbees

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2017, 08:30:37 pm »
The screen will keep the bees from balling her. I make up nucs and put the caged queen in within the hour. 
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Offline Jen

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Re: Have Been Offered A Lone Queen
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2017, 08:58:56 pm »
Apis, They were balling her right after she emerged from the cage.
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