Author Topic: Extractor decisions  (Read 2486 times)

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omnimirage

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Extractor decisions
« on: November 17, 2017, 12:21:47 am »
I've been using the crush and strain method, and I'm finding that the bees make honey faster than I can strain it. It's time to acquire an extractor!

I'm not sure if it'd be best for me to go to the hives and switch out honeyframes with empty frames, then spin at home. If I did it this way, how should I then store all of those sticky honey frames? The other option would be to take the extractor out with me and spin in my apiary site. Doing it this way would mean I'd end up camping. If I did that, could I tie an extractor to the roof rack of my car, or would I need to take a trailer with me or maybe even buy myself a ute/van?

If I took one out with me, would I need a mechanical one, or might it be feasible to run an electric one still without access to a power grid? Would using a hand one take too much time for someone who has 40-100 hives?

Does the frame amount that it can spin matter much? I'm not sure if some numbers are more effective than others.

How successful have people been who've built their own extractor? Are the professionally made ones much more effective? I have a friend who said he'd help me build one, he has an engine to motorise it and it seems simple enough to do though it's a bit beyond my skills. I see that one can get stainless steel mesh to build into baskets to hold the frames. One can then attach the baskets to a rod that sits on something that can rotate... a ballbearing? Then attach that to the sides of a stainless steel drum and install a honeygate underneath, attach it to the engine. Does all the metal, the rod, and nuts, have to be stainless steel for it to be food grade? What kind of things could I use for the drum? Would an oil barrel work?

Offline Perry

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 06:34:33 am »
Lots to answer:

First, I think that extracting in the field would be a no-go for most folks, the bee activity would make it unbearable fast.
Have enough honey supers that you can simply switch out a full one with an empty. More equipment but well worth it.
40 to 100 hives? I would definitely advise you to buy an electric one, a hand crank mechanical would be brutal with that many hives. The time it would take to design and build one could be spent doing what you really want to be doing, managing your colonies. I run a 20 frame radial for 100 hives and it works just fine.
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 09:42:41 pm »
I would use nothing but stainless steel.  40-100 hives?  Electric for sure.
I don't approve of the crush and strain method.  Your bees have to start all over building comb.  That precious time could have been collecting honey and storing it into existing comb.  That means more honey for you!
I have to agree with Perry.  The time spent designing and building an extractor could be spent working your bees.
Are you an engineer or a beekeeper?   ;)

omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 11:43:11 pm »
Well 100 is more the max I can see myself ever having. I currently have 25 hives. I've done some research and I'm rather blown away by how expensive they are to buy. Holding less than 8 frames seems like not enough. Heck, I'm not sure but even 8 frames seems like a low number, at least 9 frames can do a single super in one go. 8-9 frame spinner will cost me about $1300-1500, if I want to do more 12-20 frames then I need to add a good another $1000 on top. Being a frugal person I'm really reluctant to spend $2000-3000 here, that's a very large proportion of my savings, but I do wonder if the 8-9 frame spinners will be good for me in the longrun.

I don't really know what to look for in a spinner. One concern that I have, is some of my supers have deep honey frames, and some have medium honeyframes. Will I be able to get a spinner that can spin both deeps and mediums?

I've done some internet searching and looked at every extractor available to purchase that's within country. I did some brief searching for overseas products, but they were pretty pricey and I figure the freight would be enormous.

Here are the midrange electric spinners:

http://beekeeping.iwoohoo.com.au/electric-honey-extractors-for-bee-hives/9-frame-electric-honey-extractor-premium-grade/

I'm not sure what radial is, but I don't believe this is a radial extractor; does that matter much? It also doesn't seem to have reserve spinning abilities. This 8 frame one is from the same company:

http://beekeeping.iwoohoo.com.au/electric-honey-extractors-for-bee-hives/8-frame-electric-extractor/

It's a little more costly but does reverse spin and is radial; it looks like it spins a lot faster as well. Will it being 8 frame be an inconvenience compared to 9?

This one is radial doesn't specify if it reverses:

https://www.mydeal.com.au/premium-9-frame-radial-electric-honey-extractor

And then there's this one, I'm aversive to buying it though because the company screwed me around with a beesuit that I bought from them:

https://www.beekeepinggear.com.au/product-page/electric-honey-extractor-eight-frames


I found this:

http://www.beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/20frext.pdf

I'm not sure how good the final product will be and really unsure where to find a suitable drum for it.

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 06:25:41 am »
omni, the first 2 extractors appear to be out of stock. 
Your choices there maybe limited compared to other parts of the world. Perhaps another method of acquiring an extractor is to buy used? How about a crank extractor and hiring a strong young man?  ;D I can't imagine using crush and strain or a hand crank extractor with 25 hives.  We are exhausted using a hand crank with 8 hives!
Or if you can build a good extractor you might be able to sell them to other beekeepers!

Offline Perry

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 06:29:16 am »
If you buy a radial extractor, which all of those appear to be, you do not need to worry about reverse spinning. Both sides of the frames are extracted regardless of direction of spin.
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 07:26:20 am »
They are out of stock but I figure they'd be able to get more. Apparently there's not many options in Australia, I'll spend some time looking at overseas options. I looked for used ones, they were all overpriced bad hand ones which mostly hold just a few frames. I've been informed that the first and last option aren't worthwhile.

Good to know about the spinning!

Offline tedh

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 08:00:02 am »
Somewhere there is a thread started by Blueblood regarding an 18/9 ( I think) electric radial extractor for $1,000.00.  Might not be available to you there or as you said the shipping cost could be quite heavy.  That being said it will cost nothing to look into it.  If only someone could post a link to Blueblood's thread.  Good luck!  Ted
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 11:51:34 am »
first #1 & 3  as well as 2 & 4 are the same extractors.
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omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 06:30:53 pm »
I looked for Blueblood's thread but couldn't find anything.

huh it's not obvious to me that 2 & 4 are the same. Someone told me that #2 is a very very cheap model. So I'm guessing then my options are to build, spend an extra thousand or two on something bigger and better, or buy overseas. I'm a bit daunted by how expensive these are.

Offline tedh

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 07:23:31 pm »
It was a lyson extractor.  I found the post but don't know how to add the link here.  The title involved "mann lake 8/4(?) frame extractor".  If you search Bluebloods posts you'll find it.  Ted
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Offline CBT

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 10:30:50 pm »
Radial means the basket you put the frames (any size) in is shaped like a pizza cut into slices. The bottom of the frame goes in pointing at the center and the spinning throws the honey out both sides at the same time.

Offline Lburou

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 10:36:59 pm »
Here is Blueblood's thread about extractors.  HTH   :)
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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 01:21:37 pm »
Thanks Lee, I was hoping someone would do that.  Ted
Share that which you have an abundance of.  In doing so both the giver and receiver are enriched.

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 07:23:25 pm »
I would think that you could get one out of China, Taiwan, An Asian country fairly reasonable. It will depend on Australia custom and duty fees.
12 frame $550.00 ran shipping cost from China to south Australia $310.00= $860.00 USD = $1,040.00 AUD plus any import fees and taxes. I didn't see any large extractor that run 9 or 10 deeps and 18 to 20 mediums. they all have individual baskets for each frame with support wires on the basket sides. most likely to protect the frames from blowing out if the beekeepers go foundation less and have not wired their frames. Which I think could be the case in parts of China and Asia
https://honneyspeed.en.alibaba.com/product/60705042655-805346329/Hot_sale_12_frames_Electric_Honey_extractor.html?spm=a2700.8304367.prewdfa4cf.91.2e6dd53eylkx0Y

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omnimirage

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 05:00:55 pm »
I looked into that thread thanks.

Good find apisbees! Pretty darn good price for a 12 frame spinner. Lots of people have told me specifically to not buy a Chinese extractor, could that one have some quality issues? In what way would one notice a difference in quality with these?

Seeing that price on freight has me thinking that importing a quality one from USA or whatever is probably not financially viable.

Offline apisbees

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 07:46:36 pm »
The main different is the thickness of the stainless steel thinner stainless could dent easier if you knock something into it. I have seen a few of the China built ones and the build and quality look fine to me. They use a gear drive motor and a variable frequency drive to control the Hrz to control the motor speed so it does not put an extra load on the motor when running at slower speeds. Even if you bought a European extractor the motor and speed control are most likely built in Asia some place.
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 10:31:57 pm »
Tech support, warranty support and parts availability are important issues to consider as well.  Not being in Australia to ferret out these issues with you makes it hard to offer useful help...One would hope that used extracting equipment would come on the market near you.    O:-)
Lee_Burough

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2017, 05:46:56 am »
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-frame-electric-honey-extractor-Vintage/222730128203?hash=item33dbc00b4b:g:JmcAAOSwglVaExqi
here is a used one. old fashen but easy to keep running. I dont know why they put the galvanized shealds around the frame baskets I would pull them out. good starting price but have to wait 9 days to see where it ends
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Offline Perry

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Re: Extractor decisions
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2017, 10:43:34 am »
That looks like a decent deal for 300! :yes: Like Apis said, pull out the galvanized shields and you've got a good 12 frame radial extractor.
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