Author Topic: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes  (Read 14810 times)

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Offline Jen

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Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« on: February 06, 2014, 01:58:09 pm »
We are going to build our mediums. We went online to see what is the best wood to use. Pine and Cedar comes up. What's the difference? Keep in mind that if we choose cedar, it will be western red, not the perfumed cedar.
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Offline Riverrat

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 02:05:48 pm »
I prefer pine but have used cedar
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Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 09:56:15 pm »






Andy

Offline iddee

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 10:01:28 pm »
I prefer pine, although western cedar has been used extensively.

ablanton, make one frame from that Juniper, aka cedar, and show us how well they draw comb in it.
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Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 10:06:37 pm »
All of my frames are Mann Lake (pine?).

I wasn't sure how they would like these boxes, but they love them.  One of my healthiest hives.  It cast three swarms last Spring, and I still split it in July.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 10:16:17 pm »
No burr comb on the interior either, right?

I knew a guy in Mississippi that made 10 frames of cedar and put on a hive for 2 years. Not one spec of wax was ever put on them.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 10:21:18 pm »
Hmmm . . . never really noticed.  But now that you mention it, I don't get all of the bridge comb on the outside frames like I get in a lot of my other hives.  Heck, maybe I should start using this stuff for all of my hives!
Andy

Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 10:24:01 pm »
I was hoping these boxes may discourage SHB.  No such luck.  :sad:
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Offline keeperofthebees

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 10:48:46 pm »
Find yourself someone with a wood planer & a table saw.  Scout out some barn wood/1x12 pine.  Alot of the stuff from the turn of the century was virgin timber that's still holding up to this day.  Some good quality douglas fir does well in the elements if you're set on buying new lumber.  People will tell you you're nuts but go for some 2x12 cut offs from a construction site.  They hold together well with big fat ring shank(polebarn) nails(home depot, menards, etc).  2x4 handles will do you a world of good if you have to move them.  If a bear ever gets into it, the box won't snap to pieces like the 1x lumber.  I'm not a big fan of cedar because you have to countersink(drill) holes in it for screws, or pre-drill for nails to keep it from splitting.  Sure it's heavy, but if you're not moving the hive around I'd hope.  Take that old tire out of the garage and set the hive on that.  Fill it full of dirt if you're in snake country...If you put the hive on a pallet, then lay bricks around the sides so you don't have any hiding spots.  If you really want to cut corners buy one of those rafter t-squares & a skill saw.  The t-square is your saw guide.  I'd buy just one 9-5/8" hive body from the bee supply store/select grade pine so you have a hands on model to make your saw cuts/adjustments.  Don't nail it together, just slide the finger joint corners together and maybe use 2 nails on each corner to keep it rigid if you need to mock it up for measures.  If you have a countersink bit, you can tape the pre-drilled holes that are on the finger joints, hand screw a couple 1-1/4" screws to keep it tight.  I used a brand new deep box that lives with the table saw for making fence adjustments when I'm cutting up lids, etc.  The rest of the time that nice new deep box is my chair when I'm stapling frames & having coffee.

Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 11:04:03 pm »
People will tell you you're nuts but go for some 2x12 cut offs from a construction site.  They hold together well with big fat ring shank(polebarn) nails(home depot, menards, etc).

Nobody calling you nuts, here.  I build all of my hives with 2x stock, now.  It's cheaper than 1x and insulates better.  Seems more "tree" like, to me.

Don't know if you can tell from this pic, or not, but these hives are 2x . . .



Mediums in the foreground, deeps in the background. (yah, yah.  i know some people don't like to mix . . .)
Andy

Offline Jen

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 11:45:04 pm »
Hey Ablanton- I like the strength of your hives for sure. I don't know if that is you in the pic, but us older beeks need lighter weight boxes. And I love the mediums. That's what hubby and I are building very soon. I like that I can lift a medium by myself if I need too. I'm not able to lift a deep with honey on my own.
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Offline ablanton

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 11:51:59 pm »
*LOL* Wish I was that young! Those are my boys.

But, yes, even these 8-framers get heavy with honey.
Andy

Offline Jen

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 12:00:27 am »
Nice looking boys Ab! Really nice to see how comfortable they are with the bees. Good Job!
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Offline keeperofthebees

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2014, 03:05:46 am »
Nobody calling you nuts, here.  I build all of my hives with 2x stock, now.  It's cheaper than 1x and insulates better.  Seems more "tree" like, to me.

Don't know if you can tell from this pic, or not, but these hives are 2x . . .



Mediums in the foreground, deeps in the background. (yah, yah.  i know some people don't like to mix . . .)

Seems like tree is a good way of putting it in regards to 2" thick stock.  Any place I've found bee swarms were either mid 1850's era houses, or early 1900's buildings, with 2 or 3 layers off wood siding on top of itself.  I think the bees like the thicker wood.  You've probably got cold enough weather out there to tell us...  If you put you hand on the 2x deeps, can you feel any warmth?

Offline tecumseh

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2014, 06:28:10 am »
well pine comes in several varieties also.  what kind are you thinking of using?

for myself there are some things like cost, weight and workability that you may want to consider.  almost any wood can hold up if you treat the outside properly... since various exterior treatments may not all cost the same this impacts total cost.  of course if you don't ever plan to move a hive or participate in any manipulation then weight would not really be an issue. 

at some point in time durability and repeatability also became an issue for me.... I still make some things (I guess I just like the smell of a wood shop) but things like boxes and frames I now buy.   

Offline lazy shooter

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 10:45:56 am »
I would use white pine or Douglas fir.  Both are easy to work and will be long lasting if well maintained.  (painted)  Cedar repels some  insects, and although it some beekeepers have cedar hives I have never seen a swarm or a feral colony in or on a cedar tree.  Just on observation…..  And the juniper variety of cedar is a real pain to land owners in Texas.  Just to be honest, I hate all things cedar. 

Offline Jen

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 12:25:08 pm »
Thanks Everyone! We're going to go with pine. Light weight, easy to work with, durable. We don't have bears to worry about, and the climate is pretty agreeable for wear and tear  :) 8)
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 06:02:17 pm »
Both work well and the bees don't mind either The cedar having straight grain will split easier than pine so extra caution is needed when prying supers apart. You have to break the propolis with your hive tool or you can risk spiting the top rabbet off as depending on the bees and temp the  propolis can be stronger than the cedar.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2014, 06:34:48 pm »
Ha! You don't have to tell me about propolis. I had a toothache awhile back, put small pea size prop on the gum where the ache was. Toothache went away, never came back. Took me 4 days to get the prop off, was worried it was gonna bring the gold crown with it. I use prop for a lot of things.
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Offline keeperofthebees

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Re: Pine or Cedar (western red) for boxes
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2014, 11:45:40 pm »
You ought to take a run at those naga chillies.