Author Topic: Rattle snakes? Little green ones under pallets from california. (Read 18302 times)

iddee · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:28:35 pm »

You are right, but there are exceptions to all of nature's rules.
One summer, I was telling my son he wouldn't find a copperhead down by the river. The very next day, he caught one on a rocky island in the middle of the river, and a week later we were fishing and watched two swim across and go into a tree root at the bank.

A honeybee venom isn't deadly either, but people die from one sting. The only one of the three bites that explained the reason, was anaphylactic shock.

I agree they are not normally deadly. My brother was bitten and never received any medical care. It swelled his whole arm and turned black, then begin clearing up the next day.

As the one Jack posted, extraneous circumstances.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:11:34 pm »

Yes, it was in the news paper, like Barry i'd never heard of anyone dying from a copperhead bit either, if i'm not mistaken i think the article stated that there have been two people in Mo. that died from copperhead bites? It is rare to see a timber rattler in mo. anymore, but down in the Branson area (Tany, Co.) they have pygmy rattlers and there venom's not deadly either (so they say.) The cottonmouth population is growing in our state, and i have seen them in our northern counties where i never seen them before. There bite can be nasty.

Jack

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:27:14 pm »

Quote from: barry42001 on February 13, 2014, 10:51:25 am

Lazybkpr lol are you aware that NEVER in recorded medical history, did anyone die from the bite of a copperhead. Truth be told most people if you put a gun to their head could point to real copperhead and be right. Timber rattlesnakes and prairie rattlesnakes are geographically separated species meaning the two would almost never have occasion to meet.

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And,, that has what to do with my dogs being bitten? Our friends and neighbors Kids that are swimming in the pond? Having someone I love or care about in pain from being bitten is quite enough to insure they die the moment I see them.

Quote from: barry42001 on February 13, 2014, 12:18:14 pm

Some of the reporting is battling, copperheads are not found in wet environment's, there's a reason why they are called upland moccasins. there are scientific reasons why the Copperheads bite is not considered fatal under normal circumstances. the quality of their venom is rather poor,
they're venom glands do not hold enough to kill a healthy human under normal circumstances. mind you you might not want to go to a local disco tech and dance the night away after a bite but under normal circumstances with treatment there's nothing life threatening about to Copperhead bite.

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I NEVER see a copperhead unless I am near water. Two in my pond, and MANY times when I am fishing different rivers.. So I have to disagree completely that they are not found in wet environments. Yes, they are easy to identify and stay away from. Its not hard for me to stay away from them, but when they come to me, my home, there isn't a shred of mercy in me. It has nothing to do with death, it has to do with pain. The venom hurts, makes you feel sick, and can destroy skin and muscle tissue.
If I see them, and let them live, then my friends daughter, or even my dog gets bitten, who's fault is it?
MINE!
If one sneaks in I don't know about, fine, we all deal with the results, but when I see them, they are removed by the fastest means possible. How does the venom react when it is injected into an 8 year old girl? I am sure its a lot different than a full grown adult. What about my 50 lb Dog? Even the wifes stupid cat I value more than I do the life of a snake.

So it would be OK with you if I put a 45 slug in your leg? Probably wont kill you, so its fine right? Nothing Life threatening about that.

Are you really trying to defend a venomous snake that's too close to my house and family?

iddee · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:30:13 pm »

Missouri, possibly. Wisconsin, NO. Check my post. I said "naturally occurring". I'm sure some snake handlers buy them and they either get loose or are turned loose. They will die during the winter, so no population surviving in the wild. They've even found Alligators in Chicago, but they are not there naturally.

Quote.."Cottonmouths reside mainly in the southeastern United States. This includes very southern Virginia to Florida and west to eastern Texas. There are three subspecies: the eastern, Florida, and western cottonmouths".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agkistrodon_piscivorus_range.png

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:46:36 pm »

I think Barry said that a copperhead didn't carry enough venom to kill a human. My brothers killed 3 copperheads two of which was 27 in. long and one that was 29 in. long when they had to burn the old log cabin on the bluff over looking Big Sac river. That was a sad day, the cabin was the meeting place for family members for years (no elc.) just coal oil lamps and coal oil cook stove and a outside brick barbecue grill, and a 40 ft. well that we drew water from with a water buket, No way of knowing how many copperheads was killed on the graveled front porch of that old cabin, but everyone knew to look for them and no one was ever bite by one. The 3 copperheads mentioned above to my notion would have enough venom i think that you had better get help if bit by one. Jack
PS. Many noddled flat head catfish 30lb. to 67 pounders have fed 30 to 50 family members on the 4th of July years ag at that old log cabin.

barry42001 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:10:25 pm »

snakes are not social by Nature the only time a gathering numbers is to breed or hibernate. on that there is no guesswork it's a matter of fact. copperheads do not hardly go out of their way spoiling for a fight, in fact to bite you is a perfect waste of their venom which is very expensive for them to produce they need that venom for something more important like securing food. it is almost inevitable that when a Copperhead bites somebody, they were screwing with it, attempting to capture or kill it, or as sometimes happened inadvertently stepped on em. and any of the instances described above the animals defending itself left on device is it would much rather have nothing to do with people. the same cannot be said for people, people go out of their way to harass the snake, and then when the snake defends itself see evil snake it has to be persecuted. as for pets they can be taught the same with children but first you have to train adults. in previous years I've had copperheads in captivity for for years and years. of all the venomous snakes that I've had in my collection, and I've had a few. copperheads or perhaps the most inoffensive of all the venomous snakes. like any animal is sufficiently provoked, will it bite....of course the same as any other animal would. had you done some of the things to your dog what you done to snakes in the past, your dog would have fired you up, but I suppose being warm and furry makes all the difference in the world, and people at the base are largely uninformed in scared to death of anything reptilian, especially if it has no legs. little bit of education goes a long way...

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barry42001 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:19:46 pm »

Which one is copperhead which is banded water snake

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iddee · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:32:20 pm »

I won't give it away, but the banded is mistaken for a cottonmouth more often than it is a copperhead. I've heard hundreds say they saw a cottonmouth when we don't have them here. We only have the banded and the copperheads.

barry42001 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2014, 06:36:59 pm »

Most hospitals carry atleast a limited supply of antivenin ( crofab )

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barry42001 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2014, 06:45:44 pm »

my last word on this is if you live where these animals exist, isn't incumbent upon you to know what you're dealing with and for you to pay attention to your surroundings because you can be absolutely certain they will pay attention to their surroundings. The more you learn about what you fear the less fearsome they become.

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Walt B · « **Reply #30 on:** February 13, 2014, 07:57:03 pm »

Well said.

Walt

iddee · « **Reply #31 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:16:28 pm »

Keeper, unless you keep "hots", or venomous snakes, I would say it is totally needless. The ambulance driver will be on the phone before he gets to you, asking where you should be taken. There are more deaths in the US from lightening strikes than there are from snake bites.

I doubt many hospitals keep a supply of anti-venom on hand, as it has a short shelf life, and is individual to each snake. They can have it shipped in by the time the bitten person is tested to see if he can take it or not. A high percentage of people cannot take anti-venom. BTW, very few of them die from snake bite, either, if they get help soon after the bite. There are other ways to treat it.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:22:38 pm »

The neighbor 1/4 mile behind the 40 acres my son and i, had a Dozer digging out a basement addition to his home. The Dozer operator dug into some big sandstone rocks and there was a big ball of copperheads under them, i have heard of snakes balling up like that but have never seen it, this was in the fall, were they breeding? There is a story about a young man who jumped into a strip pit (one of peabody coal mine company's) around Clinton, Mo. to go swimming and jumped into a nest of cottonmouths and died from bites. His buddies was going for a swim also, but he was the first one in and they witness it. I've heard this story from many different sources, so i'm inclined to believe it? Jack

iddee · « **Reply #33 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:35:54 pm »

I've heard that story from 4 or 5 states, in many ponds, old mines, old rock quarries, even in a section of river. Both from cottonmouths, and from non-venomous snakes and he died from just too many bites. That is like saying he died from too many blackberry briar scratches. I've heard it for over 60 years. It goes along with a hoop snake forming a loop, rolling down a hill and stinging a tree with it's tail. Tree died, too. Also, the story of a milksnake milking a cow and the farmer didn't get any milk.

Probably could think of a few more if I tried hard.

barry42001 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:45:03 pm »

Actually crofab is the newest polvalent availble for multi species venomous snakes in US, covers all species and sub species copperheads, all water moccasin species and sub species, all crotilids ( rattlesnakes ) coral snakes have their own antivenin. Crofab has a much longer shelf life. Wyeth was the other polyvalent and had self life issues.

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barry42001 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:46:21 pm »

Draw back it's really expensive something wyeth wasn't.

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brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #36 on:** February 13, 2014, 10:10:24 pm »

You know who your true friend is, if you get bit on the butt and need someone to suck the poison out. Isn't that right Rb, perry, and iddee, my good friends.

I know i'm going to die if i get bit.

Jack

PS. Hmmmm i do have a new buddy, Keeperofthebees

barry42001 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2014, 10:30:45 pm »

Keeper, surely you realize what bovine excrement that story...for any number of scientific reasons...
The fang in the boot story, sorta like the rattlesnakes bites a moving car tire and causes a flat tire ( anyone see where this is going?) The mechanic trying to fix the tire rubs interior of tire gets pricked by fang and dies... more BS.......

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barry42001 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 13, 2014, 11:14:19 pm »

lol I was sorta fond of the tire story

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riverbee · « **Reply #39 on:** February 13, 2014, 11:31:03 pm »

"You know who your true friend is, if you get bit on the butt and need someone to suck the poison out. Isn't that right Rb, perry, and iddee, my good friends. I know i'm going to die if i get bit. Jack"

jack i am your true friend, i would save your life, BUT, i would make you swear to try plastic waxed foundation......